Consecration kit from MoreBeer

[The_Nid_Hog]

I don't think I'd stir it or shake it. Just let it alone. The bugs will continue to do their thing. It might be that the gravity is stuck at 1.010 and that's where it will stay. Not every sour gets down into the single digits. My experience has been that the partial mashes that I've put together to take advantage of a leftover yeast/bug cake when bottling the first AG sour never hit the same final gravity, even if fermentation takes off like crazy. I don't know if it's a characteristic of using extract or not, but that's what's happened to me. And I bottled with no ill effect. Certainly no bottle bombs. In fact, the biggest problem I've had with sours is to get them to carb as much as I would like them to when I bottle condition (even with the addition of fresh yeast at bottling, I think I tend hold back a little on the priming sugar). Anyway, there are lots of posts here from people who bottle above 1.010. I'm pretty sure that I read a post from Old Sock where he bottled a sour porter at 1.016 or something like that. As long as you have good reason to think it's done, I think you're fine.

 

[dtwhite]

My batch seems to be stuck at 1.010. I'm thinking about adding some more bugs. Is that reasonable? I'm thinking about doing the roeselare this time.

Concerns:
Not quite sour enough
Bottle bombs if I bottle at 1.010 FG

History:
4/16/2014 - OG 1.074 (extract kit)
4/24/2014 - 1.015 Racked on currents and pitched brett
5/19/2014 - pitched lacto
6/14/14 - 1.011
10/14/14 - 1.010
2/15/15 - 1.010

Other thoughts were just to stir the crap out of it. ? There is hardly any pellicle on top.

Any suggestions are welcome! I've been trying to be patient, but I'm just worried that i'll never be able to bottle this at such a high FG for fear of bottle bombs. Also, It's probably only a 5/10 on the sour scale and I'd like some more sourness if possible.

1) Did you just put lactobacillus in, or did you put in a blend containing pediococcus? Lactobacillus isn't very hop-tolerant and I believe the amount of hops the kit has you put in are enough to suppress it, largely. If you only put lactobacillus in before, definitely add some bottle dregs from an unpasteurized sour beer and/or a sour blend like Roeselare.

2) Don't worry about a pellicle. That's a sign of oxygen ingress more than anything.

 

[ruger988]

This may be a touch off topic but I figured it was a decent place to ask...

I did this clone last year and will be bottling/kegging (haven't decided which yet) in a couple months. I plan to brew either another batch of this or a Tart of Darkness clone to put on top of the cake to keep the funk going. How should I go about doing this? I'm assuming I want to get the currants out of the picture..

Have a few ideas on how I could go about it without ruining anything:

-Rack the beer, dump the cake/currants, then inoculate the new batch with a half gallon or so of this batch?

-Not worry about the currants and just rack the new batch on top of the cake/currants?

-Rack this batch off, then try to separate the yeast from the currants (coffee filter maybe?)

Any other ideas? Currently have 5gal in a 6.5gal plastic big mouth bubbler (not ideal to have so much headspace I know, but seemed like my best option at the time.) I plan to make the next batch 6gal to alleviate the headspace and continue to use the same BMB so I can contaminate as little equipment as possible with funk.

 

[sweetcell]

i would do it with a sanitized stainless steel sieve: after the fresh wort is cooled and in your fermenter, pour the cake of the Consecration batch through the sieve on its way in. should filter out most of the currents. a coffee filter is too fine.

also, you don't need to pitch the entire cake. a quarter of it should be more than enough.

 

[FredTheNuke]

If you have a hop spider it makes a GREAT trub and currant type item sieve. Just bleach it afterwards to the world of BUGZ stays separate from the world of ordinary beer.

 

[ruger988]

i would do it with a sanitized stainless steel sieve: after the fresh wort is cooled and in your fermenter, pour the cake of the Consecration batch through the sieve on its way in. should filter out most of the currents. a coffee filter is too fine.

also, you don't need to pitch the entire cake. a quarter of it should be more than enough.

Problem with this approach is using a 2nd fermenter for bugged beer. Trying to find a way to avoid contaminating any other plastic. Maybe rack off, collect yeast cake in a glass vessel of some sort, clean current BMB, rack new beer in, then pour yeast cake through a sieve? Seems like a lot of ways for things to go wrong, guess infection isn't as big of an issue with a sour though...

 

[sweetcell]

ah, didn't realize you wanted to re-use the same vessel. in which case i would do as you described: pour (some of) the Consecration cake into a jar, put a lid on it, quickly clean and sanitize the fermenter, add clean wort then inoculate with the the cake. you could sieve the cake twice, once going into the jar and again going into the fermeter. if you filter it on the way into the jar, you'll be able to see how good a job you did and could potentially re-filter with something finer if you're concerned about the bits that made it through the sieve (although personally i wouldn't worry 'em).

 

[ruger988]

ah, didn't realize you wanted to re-use the same vessel. in which case i would do as you described: pour (some of) the Consecration cake into a jar, put a lid on it, quickly clean and sanitize the fermenter, add clean wort then inoculate with the the cake. you could sieve the cake twice, once going into the jar and again going into the fermeter. if you filter it on the way into the jar, you'll be able to see how good a job you did and could potentially re-filter with something finer if you're concerned about the bits that made it through the sieve (although personally i wouldn't worry 'em).

Pretty sure this is the route I'm going to take. I'm not worried about chunks, just want to make sure I get the bulk of the currants out (I think, unless someone tells me I don't need to worry about getting them out...)

 

[The_Nid_Hog]

Pretty sure this is the route I'm going to take. I'm not worried about chunks, just want to make sure I get the bulk of the currants out (I think, unless someone tells me I don't need to worry about getting them out...)

I made a sour stout/Tart of Darkness clone that I aged on dried sour cherries. When I racked a new beer onto the yeast cake I left whatever was left of the cherries there. No negative effects that I can tell.

 

[jahdub]

The currants are not going to stay in suspension for very long. I'd just add a pint or two of water, mix it up, let it sit for a few minutes, then decant and pitch that. Or do the same thing with a pint or two of beer left in the fermenter during racking.

 

[morequinn]

I also brewed a ToD after bottling the Consecration. I strained most of the currants using a funnel/strainer than was on a clean growler. I say most because this was pretty messy work as the strainer kept getting clogged.

Once i got the yeast into the growler, I cleaned the carboy, put the ToD wort in there and pitched the yeast on top. It started souring very quickly compared to the Consecration, but a word of caution that it did take about 5 days for signs of fermentation to start, so be patient.

On a side note, how long is it taking for the Consecration to carbonate? I added wine yeast and priming sugar at bottling, but the carbonation is still very light after several months. I have moved the bottles from the basement to a warmer part of the house to see if that helps.

 

[FredTheNuke]

Something is not right there. Wine yeast along with priming sugar should carbonate within two weeks. Even with the low pH of a sour.

 

[TrickyDick]

I have noticed that the sours can take 2-3 times as long to develop good carbonation compared to un-soured bottle conditioned beers. I have not added wine yeast however. Thanks for reminding me that it's part of the consecration recipe. Check the storage temps.

What wine yeast to use? Some wine yeasts can kill other yeasts. Think I'd want to avoid those varieties.

TD

 

[FredTheNuke]

I believe Rock Pile is what RR uses. Premier Cuvée has also been mentioned along with Montrachet or champagne yeast.

 

[sweetcell]

Some wine yeasts can kill other yeasts. Think I'd want to avoid those varieties.

71-B is one of the few wine yeasts that isn't 'killer'. if you're concerned about the wine yeast killing the brewers yeast, then 71-B is the way to go. mind you, after such a long aging the brewer's yeast should have flocc'ed out. rack carefully before bottling and next to none should make it into the bottle (hence the need for a bottling yeast).

 

[TrickyDick]

71-B is one of the few wine yeasts that isn't 'killer'. if you're concerned about the wine yeast killing the brewers yeast, then 71-B is the way to go. mind you, after such a long aging the brewer's yeast should have flocc'ed out. rack carefully before bottling and next to none should make it into the bottle (hence the need for a bottling yeast).

Thanks!

So while you're at it, how about some recommendations.
Here is what I have that needs to be bottled. Its basically most of last years homebrewing efforts - not all though. All are at terminal gravity and have been some some time
2 carboys of the Consecration clone. This is over a year old now.
2 carboys of an Oud Bruin (with the Wyeast PC yeast)
2 carboys of a Flanders Red - one got a quart of cherry concentrate - the other too full to add any. (Wyeast PC yeast)

I have some Lallemand CBC-1 on hand. Have some older packets of wine yeast - not sure which ones off hand that I'd intended to make a mead with but never got around to it.

TD

 

[sweetcell]

recommendation for what, a bottling yeast? CBC-1 would be a fine way to go. one pack would be enough for all 6 carboys. i would rehydrate the yeast before adding it to the bottling bucket.

 

[TrickyDick]

recommendation for what, a bottling yeast? CBC-1 would be a fine way to go. one pack would be enough for all 6 carboys. i would rehydrate the yeast before adding it to the bottling bucket.

Yes. Thanks. I'm not quite sure how well Wine yeast is any better than the CBC. Perhaps wine yeast is more tolerant of low pH (Think I might have read that in Oldsock's book)? Certainly doubt at this point its going to add any "character". I hate bottling......



TD

 

[FredTheNuke]

Remember to use champagne or Belgian bottles if you are going to "normal" sour beer carbonation levels (3.5-4 vols in many cases). Bottle Bombs also suck.

 

[TrickyDick]

Yeah thanks. I have some 375ml cork finish for about 5g worth - the rest an assortment of Belgian New and Used cork finish and some commercial sour bottles with 29mm crown top. All in all, a real hodgepodge of bottles really.

TD

 

[TrickyDick]

Yeah thanks. I have some 375ml cork finish for about 5g worth - the rest an assortment of Belgian New and Used cork finish and some commercial sour bottles with 29mm crown top. All in all, a real hodgepodge of bottles really.

TD

 

[italarican]

Remember to use champagne or Belgian bottles if you are going to "normal" sour beer carbonation levels (3.5-4 vols in many cases). Bottle Bombs also suck.

If I only have standard capped 12 oz bottles, what would you suggest I do differently? Just use less priming sugar (e.g., 3.0 volumes)?

 

[FredTheNuke]

Absolute maximum would be three volumes. My personal limit is 2.5 volumes which is equivalent to about 30 PSI at room temperature (72 F).

 

[sweetcell]

yeah, stay well below 3.0. that's the highest i'd go id i was 100% confident that the beer was fully attenuated. a one point drop will get you to 3.0.

All in all, a real hodgepodge of bottles really.

that is what every sour bottling looks like for me. using a bench capper makes it bearable.

 

[italarican]

I'll shoot for 2.5... thanks!

Something I realized I hadn't considered: how do I account for wine yeast when determining how much sugar to use? My plan was to bottle 5 gallons of this with corn sugar and a packet of champagne yeast. The bottling calculator I use (http://www.brewersfriend.com/beer-priming-calculator/) doesn't include use of wine yeast.

 

[youreanimpulse]

The yeast eats the sugar. It doesn't change how much sugar to use.

 

[FredTheNuke]

Champagne yeast is wine yeast just a strain that ferments completely dry usually as far as 0.998

 

[sweetcell]

Something I realized I hadn't considered: how do I account for wine yeast when determining how much sugar to use?

No need to do anything different, prime as usual per the calculator's instructions.

 

[Pole]

Has anyone tried (and been successful) brewing this without racking to secondary?

I'm planning to give this a go this weekend with Bug County as the primary blend, instead of doing a primary with abbey yeast, cold crashing, racking, and then adding brett/bugs.

My thought is to let it ride for a couple months (3? 6?) for the sacc to die off, and then add the currants right into the primary.

I'd appreciate any feedback!

 

[misled_drummer]

It's almost a year, in April 2014, since I brewed my first batch of this stuff. I blended it after 6 months witch a fresh 5 gallon batch. The sourness isn't quite where I want it so I'll keep letting it age for a few more months.