Conical for Christmas... but which one?

[user 40839]

I'm having a nervous breakdown. Seriously.

I've got my mind firmly set on a conical fermenter for Christmas from SWMBO, or at the very least cash towards one. But the issue I'm having is "Which one?" In my head, the one I want is the Stout Tanks short 14.5 gallon model, which has absolutely everything I need - perfect size for my fermentation chamber, sanitary fittings, even on wheels, and the price of $495 can't be beat. Only problem is that they won't ship until @#$# June or July!!

Which means I'm looking at other options... there's the Blichmann, which has the size I want in terms of capacity (14.5 gallons too), obviously has the bling factor, and I love that it's got the wee corny lid for adding dry hops etc., which means no having to pull it out to open the lid. But it's FAR spendier, especially if I want the sanitary fittings (most people seem to think it's well worth the extra money) and I'm somewhat gunshy about the fact that it's weldless.

Of course there's Morebeer - spendier still. $900 is just way out of the price range, even though it's coming pretty much fully equipped with tri clovers and butterfly valve. (Although as spendy as it is, by the time you get the add-ons for the Blichmann, it's the same price... although I would have to pay tax since I'm in California)

Finally there's the Brewhemoth. Which is available, and certainly the right price. But again, once I add in the cost of upgrading the valves to sanitary, I'm over $600. More to the point, it's way too big for me, even though 1/2 BBL capacity sounds nice.

So there you go. I'm completely stumped, and have no idea what to get. My gut's telling me to just go with the Stout Tanks, since it ticks all the boxes, and wait until June. But... man, that's six months away! Any input from conical owners is much appreciated. ARE the sanitary fittings really worth the upgrade? (I would think that once you dump trub, there's going to be a little bit of wort/trub left in the ball valve, which would be an issue when you harvest yeast?) Are there others out there I don't know of, and should be considering?

 

[rmullins]

This thread is relevant to my interests. I'm deciding between the b3 and blichmann at this point

 

[user 40839]

If money were no option, I'd probably go B3. But $900 plus tax off the bat for me (although kinda annoyed I missed their 15% off everything sale on Saturday in the showroom) is beyond what SWMBO will authorize. My budget is pretty much $500. The other three are in range, although it'd be more the standard Blichmann as opposed to the sanitary package, which I'd rather have. (and that'd take some convincing!)

 

[rmullins]

I'm no tax on any of them. I'd be going triclamp with blichmann. With B3 I will need the co2 adapter though.

Blichmann does have the quickest turnaround it looks like

 

[user 40839]

True on the CO2 adapter, but you'd also need that for the Blichmann (you just get a hole in the top, need to buy the blowoff kit). Although, you can apparently push CO2 with just a rubber stopper.

Given that the B3 already has the sanitary port on the lid, you could probably just hit up swagman for a custom cover with a gas in port, for not much $$$.

 

[rmullins]

Ah didn't realize you needeed the blowoff adapter for pressurizing the blichmann (certainly isn't clear in the descriptions on all of the Homebrew vendor sites.

I'll probably go with B3 since they have been good to me in the past. Will probably check with JP if they are having a sale in the future

 

[JNye]

I'll never own one, I just don't have a need for that much of one beer. But if you do, don't cheap out. If you are finding it necesary to cheap out, you prolly shouldn't be getting one. Either wait for the Stout or spend the extra cash to have what you want now.

 

[Robcl]

I would wait for the Stout. I have one of their Brew Kettles. The quality is worth the wait. Tri-clamps, sanitary welds, conical bottom (Their kettles are conical), mirror finish. I believe the fermenters have all the same features. Six months is rough, but think of the fun when you get it. I had to wait over two months for the kettle, glad I did.
Cheers!

 

[Dog House Brew]

Fab your own or geta keg and fittings to ferment in it until June when Stout comes a knock'n

 

[Captain_Bigelow]

Wait for the Stout.... I am sure you will get it quicker than July if you order soon. They seem to get shipments about every 3 months.

 

[Beer:30]

Santa is bringing me the 27 gallon Blichmann sanitary; I am beyond pumped, can't wait...

 

[AiredAle]

Just my bias, but I would only buy one made in the USA. Tired of seeing our manufacturing base dry up as China's gets bigger.

 

[user 40839]

Well, being an immigrant myself, I'm not that pushed, ahaha.

That said, There's definitely pros and cons to each of these, but frankly the only one (the more I look) that has everything I want in one package (sanitary package, sanitary welded fittings, ability to hold pressure, size, etc.) is the Morebeer. Looks like I'm asking Santa for a gift certificate, and going into savings mode.

 

[BrewBeemer]

True on the CO2 adapter, but you'd also need that for the Blichmann (you just get a hole in the top, need to buy the blowoff kit). Although, you can apparently push CO2 with just a rubber stopper.

Given that the B3 already has the sanitary port on the lid, you could probably just hit up swagman for a custom cover with a gas in port, for not much $$$.

I just ordered a Brewhemoth, 22 gal max capacity it will handle 15+ gallon net batches, 16" diameter. Base price $429.99 this is 14 gauge SS unit built like a tank.
Instead of the airlock hole on top I paid extra to have a 1" tri fitting welded on, a 3/4" tri fitting for the racking instead of standard 1/2" plus a 1 1/2" tri fitting 90 degree for dump. These options without any valves I have connections on cost me $459.99, free shipping no sales tax. A great find thanks to HBT member Kally's posting. No waiting shipped next week. At this price I can buy two vs looking at one fermenter with bling, can't ferment with bling.

 

[user 40839]

Beemer, I've definitely given them a look, and got a quote from Dale on basically the exact same unit you just specced out (after seeing Kally's build too). Alas, I have absolutely no connections for sanitary fittings, and pricing them out I'm looking at over $300 by the time I get the dump valve, racking valve/arm, blowoff/gas assembly for the top, clamps, etc., which brings me to the same price as the Morebeer. Then there's the bigger issue of finding some place for it to live, since it's far too tall for my fermentation chamber (and I don't have the capacity for 15 gallon batches, so the volume is overkill...)

I tellya, maybe I should just go the plastic induction tank route, this is all doing my head in.

 

[BrewBeemer]

With the short 90 dump fitting welded onto the ferm I had them also shorten the legs lowering the overall height of the unit. This with still 4" space before the dump valve. Stout Tank has a 1 1/2" tri clamp butterfly valve listed at
$50. Shop around valves are availabe much cheaper and in brand names just have to get lucky.

 

[user 40839]

I dunno, I'm still concerned about the eventual cost and - I'll be honest - since Brewhemoth are new on the block, and based on the handful of photos I've seen, I'm not sold on the welding work on them (far better than I can do, of course, but for a fermenter I'd want them polished and smooth as a baby's arse.) at least the exterior ones (haven't seen any pics of interior welds.)

And am still working with that pesky 42" overall maximum height. Even with the shortened legs, I think the Brewhemoth's too big. Fantastic for folks wanting bigger capacity, (and their prices/availability can't be beat) but I just don't think it's right for me.

I did speak to John at Stout Tanks, and have to admit they're as willing to customize. Talked about adding two sanitary ports to the top of their short fermenter - a 1" instead of the hole for the blowoff port, and a 3" that I can use as a hatch that I can add dry hops etc. through, instead of opening the whole thing up, and both added something like $25 to the overall price. And their welds (at least on their site) look really nicely done. But... no dice until June. Waiting six months for a Christmas present is rough.

Of course, the other option someone suggested to me was to buy the Blichmann with standard fittings, and have a 1.5" tri elbow sanitary welded to it when I decide to upgrade, if I want instant gratification....

 

[BrewBeemer]

I would bet they must have high standards building liquid oxygen tanks their welds meeting federal safety standards requirements for pressure vessels at Brewhemoth. Crappy welds I don't think would be in their best intrest.

 

[RogerMcAllen]

Hopefully not derailing, but I have heard that a conical is a waste if you don't have proper temperature control. Do you have a conditioned room, or are either of the conicals easier to hook up to a chiller (jacketed or integrated cooling lines)?

 

[rmullins]

Not a waste, but without temperature control you are still leaving up a huge variable for your brewing process.

I don't have temperature control at this point, but by the time I actually have a conical and am ready for it for fermentation (I'm not brewing in my driveway in 15* weather) I will either have a freezer set up for fermentation, or will have built a fermentation room in my garage.

 

[rosier9]

patience is a virtue

 

[user 40839]

I would of bet they must have high standards with building liquid oxygen tanks their welds meeting federal safety standards requirements for pressure vessels at Brewhemoth. Crappy welds I don't think would be in their best intrest.

That's very true, and I don't want to infer that the welds are in any way crappy. Maybe it's just that the "traditional" conicals have a more professional, purpose built air, whereas the Brewhemoth is more of a repurposed type thing? (Again, that sounds harsh and snobby... I'm not sure how to put it.)

As to fermentation temps, I've got a fermentation chamber that does the job nicely for what I have right now, providing heating and cooling via one of those ebay aquarium controllers. I think at some point I'd like to snag an upright freezer and add the controller to that, but part of the green light for a conical comes with the promise of cutting back on my spending in the new year, and limiting it to just ingredients if possible (considering I built a Brutus, two keezers, a fermentation chamber, and a motorized mill, as well as putting together a grain library, mobile kegerator, all in the past 12 months!)

 

[BrewBeemer]

Gaz, don't make me sail off my island and head over to thump you on the head, LOL!
I had a wild idea yesterday thinking Brewhemoth is a industrial item not a pretty lady just a working scrub lady that gets the job done.
What if it was all polished up? Mega tank bling?

 

[Catt22]

http://morebeer.com/view_product/10778/103798/The_Ultimate_Conical_-_14gallon

 

[ScubaSteve]

Will a conical help any part of your process? I mean, you can harvest yeast from a sanke. Do you harvest yeast often? I'd LOVE to have a conical, and totally realize none of this stuff is cuz we NEED it....but for the price, I can't see how it'd make anything easier or better....it's just require even more equipment to support it....(dedicated fridge, etc.)

I'd consider going the WortMonger route with a nice spunding valve setup, etc.....you could probably get 3 sankes with hardware and still be under the price of a conical....and you'd have no issues fitting that into your existing fridge!

 

[remilard]

I would bet they must have high standards building liquid oxygen tanks their welds meeting federal safety standards requirements for pressure vessels at Brewhemoth. Crappy welds I don't think would be in their best intrest.

I haven't seen the internal welds on a Brewhemoth but just in general strong welds and sanitary welds aren't necessarily the same thing.

 

[user 40839]

Gaz, don't make me sail off my island and head over to thump you on the head, LOL!
I had a wild idea yesterday thinking Brewhemoth is a industrial item not a pretty lady just a working scrub lady that gets the job done.
What if it was all polished up? Mega tank bling?

Well, I don't think anyone can deny that the bling factor is always there to be considered, hehe. I mean, if I'm paying the same amount of money, I'd rather have a petite beauty than a fatty that needs a good scrubbing!

Seriously tho, size matters for me, and given the space issues I have, I'd have to chop two feet off the legs in order to *just* squeeze it in. Even then, I'd have to pull it out any time I had to dry hop, just so I could open it up.

 

[user 40839]

Will a conical help any part of your process? I mean, you can harvest yeast from a sanke. Do you harvest yeast often? I'd LOVE to have a conical, and totally realize none of this stuff is cuz we NEED it....but for the price, I can't see how it'd make anything easier or better....it's just require even more equipment to support it....(dedicated fridge, etc.)

I'd consider going the WortMonger route with a nice spunding valve setup, etc.....you could probably get 3 sankes with hardware and still be under the price of a conical....and you'd have no issues fitting that into your existing fridge!

Well, I already have the dedicated fridge, and I actually have a sanke downstairs with one of Derrin's fermenter assemblies as well as an extra hole in the top for a corny lid. I haven't even used it yet, despite owning it for a while, since I'm absolutely paranoid about cleaning it. (Keg has an odd-shaped bottom which means it won't sit on my burner, but I have filled it with 180 degree PBW, soaked it overnight, and am STILL worried) I really need to get over that.

Reasons for wanting a conical:

1. Dump valve. Since I use a plate chiller, I get a LOT of crap in my beer, cold break, etc. I'm an avid believer in using a secondary, which can be a pain in the arse. Being able to dump all that 24 hours after pitching is really appealing to me.
   
   
2. One batch, one vessel. Since I always secondary, I end up with FOUR vessels that I need to clean (usually two Better Bottles, then two carboys) - this means just one. And with a conical, the thing opens up completely, making it a lot easier to clean than having to go through the keyhole with a carboy, Better Bottle, or sanke.
   
   
3. Harvesting yeast. I know it's possible from basically anything, but it's hard to argue that it's a snap with a conical. Week after dumping trub, just crack a sanitized mason jar with sterile water in there, and fill 'er up.
   
   
4. Pressurized transfers. Love the idea of pushing my beer via CO2 to my cornies, as opposed to ye olde siphon.
   
   
5. Completely sealed fermentation. Since there's no transfer from primary to secondary, and no open transfer from secondary to keg, reduces the risk of heebiejeebies getting in my beer.
   
   
6. Stainless as opposed to plastic or glass. No light penetration, no scratches to worry about, no shattering to deal with...
   
   
7. My wife is willing to get me one! Yep, that's a biggie right there, this isn't something I have to save for or go cap in hand for, she's willing to snag me one!

Now, I know a lot of the above can be accomplished with a sanke fermenter. I've thought about that, and like I said, even have one downstairs. But of the above, points 1 and 2 are the decision makers for me. The ease of cleaning, and not having to secondary (yeah, I know I don't HAVE to secondary, but that's a whole other debate!), and the peace of mind (again, I know lots of folks ferment in sankes, and have no issues, and I'm being unnecessarily paranoid) in being able to open it up and clean it thoroughly... (And yeah, because SWMBO said I could!)

 

[Captain_Bigelow]

8. Bling factor.

 

[BrewBeemer]

Super cool, this morning just before they started on my ferm build I had a change made, not having the hold down clamp installed plus the "O" ringed cap. I'm having a 4" tri-clover fitting welded in instead.
This way I can add Co2 to push, this can be done without problem with the standard cap. With a tri cap I can add a thermowell, Co2 in fitting plus a pressure relief safety valve.
The ferm vessel can then take any pressures within reason plus be safely without any possible pressurized leaking problems.

Now off to deliver this ring neck male pheasant to a ranch, it's ok pecked the hell out of me and is hissing. I thought it was a road kill last night but not this moring.