conical fermenter heater/cooler

[Banjoman002]

Wow, that sucks...I thought it was bad when only one shop refused me and the other charged me 80 bucks,...keep trying.

 

[NTabb]

How hard is it to clean the conical after adding these parts? I have two of the stout conicals and very interested in this?

 

[JohnnyBe]

@NTabb

If your conicals have ports on the top clean in place just like you would at a brewery. A pump, spray ball and tank is all you need then.

 

[marcb]

Building two of these now. Marcb and I are basing ours off his 14 and 27-gallon Morebeer Ultimates, but the OP's link is basically the same thing. I just had the aluminum block made. I'll get the Peltier pads and heatsinks mounted to the blocks once I get my new milling machine set up.

Here it's Jerry rigged up to help with a beertastrophe last night ; )

 

[Banjoman002]

Ran tests yesterday. Starting with 85 F water it took 4 hours to cool to 67 F. I raised the temp up to 71 F with fermwrap heater (took about 40 min), turned on cooling again and 7 hours later I terminated the test at 60 F. Don't think I'll be lagering but at least It will give me some control.

Rich

 

[JohnnyBe]

If you insulated it that would help a lot. Also what size peltier device are you using and is your cooling fan large enough?

 

[kshuler]

Starting with 85 F water it took 4 hours to cool to 67 F. I raised the temp up to 71 F with fermwrap heater (took about 40 min), turned on cooling again and 7 hours later I terminated the test at 60 F.

Rich

Out of curiosity, what was the ambient temp during your test? I don't need lagering, but in summer the basement where I ferment gets up occasionally to the mid 70s on a hot day. All I need is about 10-15 degrees of cooling. 60 degrees would be FANTASTIC is I can get it to work that well. My controller box is now done other than final testing, and now I have to mill the aluminum plates and assemble the business end of the thing.

Klaus

 

[StMarcos]

Don't forget that you will also have to counteract the exothermic fermentation....

 

[Banjoman002]

Ambient temp was approx 68 F
Fermenter is insulated
Using TEC1-12709 Peltiers, 9 amp....bigger ones probably would work better but then would have to size up fans and power supply.
True story on the heat of fermentation.

Hopefully this unit will give me what I want and that is to nudge the temp a few degrees one way or the other to keep it at optimum Ale temps.

 

[rvklein]

Can someone point me in the direction of companies that will mill these blocks for a reasonable price? I'm having no luck at all.

thanks.

 

[kshuler]

Hopefully this unit will give me what I want and that is to nudge the temp a few degrees one way or the other to keep it at optimum Ale temps.

It looks like you did not insulate the cone or the top... I wonder if doing so would make it function better? Also, the insulation you used is the reflectix type and the one used by the Morebeer conical is a different type--- would changing the insulation make it more efficient for dropping temps, do you think? The morebeer conical is insulated everywhere except where valves come out it looks like... you may be getting some heating from ambient from the non-insulated areas.

The thing about the exothermic reaction that has to be counteracted is quite true, however, fermentation may also help some with making cooling more efficient, as the continuous mixing of the beer will reduce localized cooling effects and bring more of the warm beer to the surface of the vessel faster. Might make cooling more efficient when you need it most?

Also, even with the perfectly fitting aluminum blocks, they are still NOT perfectly fitting. There are little microscopic air gaps that prevent efficient heat transfer. THe whole thing would work better if some sort of heat conductive paste were applied between the fermentor and aluminum blocks, although cleanup would be painful. Also thermal compounds seem quite expensive and you would need a lot. Does anybody know of a cheap way to get better contact between the aluminum blocks and the steel wall of the conical? I see these "thermal pads" on ebay like this, but I have no experience nd don't know how good they are as compared to metal to metal contact. Anyone have experience with these?

Klaus

 

[JohnnyBe]

Thermal paste is the way to go. A small amount is needed since you want the coat to be as thin as possible between the block and your conical. The stuff with silver in it is what you want like this one.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835100007 This is going to help a lot with thermal transfer between the conical and cooling block. This is also what you should use between your peltier device and the cooling block.

The insulation that Morebeer uses (armaflex) has an R-Value of around 4.2. The reflective bubble insulation has a stated R- Value of 3.7 but there are several people who debate this and the main manufacturer doesn't list an r-value on their website since it is based on the specific application. With that said I would imagine that the aramflex insulation would maybe give you a higher r-value but I could be completely mistaken.

 

[fastev]

Can someone point me in the direction of companies that will mill these blocks for a reasonable price? I'm having no luck at all.

thanks.

I can get more made. I went through a shop that I use at work all the time. I'd need to buy the metal but can have the blocks made. Keep in mind though, that I measured mine had blocks made for the eBay 7.3gal fermenters. I think the O.D. is the same as the Stout version so they should work.

 

[kshuler]

I can get more made. I went through a shop that I use at work all the time. I'd need to buy the metal but can have the blocks made. Keep in mind though, that I measured mine had blocks made for the eBay 7.3gal fermenters. I think the O.D. is the same as the Stout version so they should work.

If you can do this, I would gladly pay a bit extra for your trouble. I haven't tried to find a place to do the milling yet, but over the next few days that is going to be my goal. I have aluminum blocks since onlinemetals.com is located here in Seattle and does local pickup. But if I can't find a place to do the milling, it would be great if you could get a run made and then people could buy from you.

Klaus

 

[Ackroyd]

You might try quickparts. We use them sometimes at work, they are generally fast and fairly reasonable for small contract jobs. That being said they may still be a little expensive for hobby parts.

http://www.quickparts.com/home.aspx

 

[Banjoman002]

I was thinking you could send me the blocks and I'd have the shop that did mine do it, but then it occurred to me they'd need to take measurements off your fermenter..they could use mine but I'd have to take all the stuff off of it and having just got it all on that does not appeal to me, Have you tried smaller outlying communities that may have shops with CNC machines?

 

[fastev]

If you can do this, I would gladly pay a bit extra for your trouble. I haven't tried to find a place to do the milling yet, but over the next few days that is going to be my goal. I have aluminum blocks since onlinemetals.com is located here in Seattle and does local pickup. But if I can't find a place to do the milling, it would be great if you could get a run made and then people could buy from you.

Klaus

If you are in a bind let me know and I'll try to help out. I don't think I want to have a bunch of blocks made; I'm sure I'd end up sitting on them and out a bunch of money. People get really excited at the beginning and want in, but once it comes time to pay it's a different story.
Once I get my NC mill up and running it'll be a different story as I can make them myself quickly since I already wrote a program. Unfortunately, that is a ways out.
I might set up my rotary table and knock a couple out manually just to see how long it takes.

 

[rvklein]

My fermenter has a 200mm radius. I already have the aluminum (8.75"x6"x1") The numbers I have are:

Arc Radius 200mm
Arv height 15.0950mm
Arc Width 6"
Arc Length 156.635mm

If someone is willing to do so could you get me a quote and I could ship you the blocks. I'd greatly appreciate it and will include some homebrew!

 

[Banjoman002]

I'd be more than happy to do that, though I'm a bit far from you (Washington State) I'll go out tomorrow and get you a quote.

Rich

 

[Banjoman002]

My fermenter has a 200mm radius. I already have the aluminum (8.75"x6"x1") The numbers I have are:

Arc Radius 200mm
Arv height 15.0950mm
Arc Width 6"
Arc Length 156.635mm

If someone is willing to do so could you get me a quote and I could ship you the blocks. I'd greatly appreciate it and will include some homebrew!

I went out to Jetco today (They did my blocks) http://www.jetco-usa.com/
They quoted $80.00. If you want to send me your blocks and bucks I'll get them out there and ship them back at ya when they're finished.

Rich

 

[rvklein]

Man. The east coast sucks for getting decent prices. sold! PM me your address. Thanks!

 

[marcb]

So the little Frankenferm with the peltier started a batch of Cal Common at 78 last night, checked this morning and it was down to 63. Lets see how it does all week set at 65!

 

[marcb]

So the little Frankenferm with the peltier started a batch of Cal Common at 78 last night, checked this morning and it was down to 63. Lets see how it does all week set at 65!

Here are some detailed pics.

 

[fastev]

Hey, that looks familiar...

 

[marcb]

Hey, that looks familiar...

Where are the pics man : )

Show off the twins....

 

[Veritas]

Last year I took my tax return and gifted myself with a 14 gallon h/c conical from morebeer. (My swmbo actually suggested it! I am a lucky man.) anyhow, I've got to say that it has transformed my brewing! Temperature control for fermentation (from 68 for ales up to 80 for saison with perfect control), yeast harvesting, crashing, bright tank, clean in place... I love it. But I'm doing more lagers now and wish I could drop it down to lagering temps, like the ultimate conical does. I do temperature control a large chest freezer (two stage controller with a ceramic heater, works great)

Has anyone built one of these capable of lagering? Is so, I will make this my next project! (I'm thinking 10 gallon batches, by the way.)

 

[AutoDog]

Some impressive handiwork on this thread!

Now that several of you have had your systems up and running for awhile now, has anyone had success getting these conicals down to lagering or even cold-crash temperatures?

-AD

 

[marcb]

Some impressive handiwork on this thread!

Now that several of you have had your systems up and running for awhile now, has anyone had success getting these conicals down to lagering or even cold-crash temperatures?

-AD

Yes sir, crashing in these is no big deal....takes anywhere from 12-24 hours. I doubt you'd want to lager in one of these as they frost up pretty good while crashing so I'm not sure they would last if on 24/7 for an extended period of time. Also the quality of the peltier matters, one of the cheap ones I bought died at the end of my second fermentation and had to be replaced.

 

[Clawson]

Sorry to dig up a old thread. How does this work in higher ambient temperatures? Does everyone keep it inside their house or does anyone leave it free standing in their garage? I wonder how this would work during the heat of the summer.

Matt

 

[marcb]

Sorry to dig up a old thread. How does this work in higher ambient temperatures? Does everyone keep it inside their house or does anyone leave it free standing in their garage? I wonder how this would work during the heat of the summer. Matt

No worries, these maintain temp fine during summer. I use mine in the garage without issue. Even if the garage is in the 90's, it has no problem maintaining 68 for fermentation. Keep in mind that this will only cool 20-30 below ambient so the hotter the ambient the higher your low end temp will be.