Confused about kegs and balance

[denimglen]

I've been reading and searching and trying to figure this out but it doesn't seem to click...I'd say I'm just over complicating things a bit as well.

Ok where to start...

Pretty much want I want to sort out is a nice balanced system that works for a wide range of styles of beer. Where I don't have to mess around with the regulator and burping to serve one pint.

For example at the moment I have a brown ale and a weiss that are are just about ready to go into the keg. For the weiss I'd like about 3.0 volumes, for the brown about 2.2 (carbonating both at the same time isn't a problem, I've got that sorted).

I'd like to have my fridge set at about 10C (50F), it seems a good middle point.

For the wheat it will have to be set at 23ishpsi to carb for 3 volumes. So I'd need to have 11' of line to balance it.

For the brown at 13psi I'd need 5' of line to balance.

Ok, that's cool sorted, buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut what happens when I want to have two wheats at once?...then I have one line that will provide too little resistance. Or a english ale that I only want 1.9 columes for? So would that mean I'd need to have a bunch of different line lengths to swap around depending on the volumes of co2 in the beer?

Is this right? Is there any way around it that I'm missing? Is there an easy way? Should I stop being pedantic and just set it to 40F and 11psi for a week and be done with it?


Argh.


I WANT KEGGED BEER!

Thanks in advance

 

[Lil' Sparky]

If you want to serve 2 different beers at different CO2 volumes, you'll need 2 regulators for starters. And if you always want to change those volumes and keep your system balanced, then yes, you'll need different beer line lengths.

Should I stop being pedantic and just set it to 40F and 11psi for a week and be done with it?

This is what I do, and I'm more than happy. Or, you can pick 2 different volumes for different beer styles, balance your system to that, and leave it.

 

[Bobby_M]

You should realize also that running a 2 volume of beer on a 10' line will just make it pour a little slower than if it were 6'. It's not the end of the world. I'd make both lines 10' and live with slow pours on lower carbed beers. At least you won't have to monkey with the gas when you want to pour a hefe.

 

[user 4295]

I agree with Bobby M. Also, the 2 psi per foot pressure drop for 3/16" ID tubing is just a rule of thumb. The higher the level of carbonation the lower the effective pressure drop will be. You just can't take the pressure, divide by two and get an exact length that will work. The rule of thumb will get you close though.

Just make all your tubing lengths for the highest level of carbonation that you will expect to brew. Then any lower carb'd beers on that line will just pour slower. As Bobby said, it's not the end of the world to have a pint take 15 seconds to pour instead of 5. FWIW, even if you put 200' of line on a tap you will still get beer to pour out the end, but it will be very slow.

I went into the archives and found a post that I made some time ago about balancing beers of differing levels of CO2. Here it is for your viewing pleasure:

I serve through 10' of tubing regardless of the style being served. The only thing that changes with the serving pressure is the pour rate. A Hefe served at 18 psi has a pour rate that is faster than a stout served at 8 psi. Both will serve foam free though, that is the goal!

It really is a game of compromise. Choose a length of line that gives you the flexibility to serve higher carbed beers and the trade off will be that when you serve lower carbed beers your pour rate will be a little slower. I have not found this to be a problem.

There is a rule of thumb that each foot of 3/16" ID beverage line has a pressure drop of 2 psi. That is a little simplistic. There is a large set of variables involved in balancing your system. The higher the carbonation level - the slower you want the pour. The faster the pour the quicker the co² will be knocked out of solution during the pour.

The rule of thumb that I use is:


Carb level = Desired Pour rate = Effective 3/16" Line Resistance at that given volume of CO2

1.8 to 2.3 volumes = 110-120 oz/min = 2.19 lbs/ft
2.4 to 2.6 volumes = 100-115 oz/min = 1.81 lbs/ft
2.6 to 2.8 volumes = 90-105 oz/min = 1.40 lbs/ft
2.8 to 3.0 volumes = 75-85 oz/min = 0.94 lbs/ft

So you can see that just using the 2 psi per foot pressure drop figure for 3/16" ID beverage tubing to balance your system does not take all factors into consideration.

 

[david_42]

Like they say in football, "Go Long!" I have 10' lines and two secondary regulators. (also a 12' line on the soda water @ 30 psi). I don't care if I have a 5 sec. pour or a 30 sec. pour.

 

[denimglen]

Ah ha!

Sweet, I didn't think about just having a long line and a slow pour. I thought that there wouldn't have been enough force to push the beer out if there was too much resistance.

Cool so I think I'll just go with the longer lines and the slow pour.

Thanks heaps everyone

EDIT: Just to clear things up.

I used the calculator at http://clbe.net/balancedkeg.htm (saved it and changed it from 2.4 to 0.94 as said above) and calculated at 50F, 3 volumes, 1' rise and it gave me 26' of tubing. Does this sound right?

EDIT II: Ok so I changed it to 1.4 for 2.8 volumes and got 15.6' that might be the way to go seeing as I've only ordered 32' of line.

 

[user 4295]

One thing I can tell you is that even my revised rules of thumb that I posted above are just that, rules of thumb that are not written in stone. I love Hefe's and carb them accordingly. I was serving them at 3.0 volumes of CO2 through 15' of tubing at 40˚F (I like cold beer regardless of style). They served great! I then put a stout carb'd much lower on that 15' line and the pour was foam free, but the pour rate was excruciatingly slow. I cut the line back to 12' and the pour rate for the stout was much better. Then I again put a Hefe carb'd to 3 volumes on the line I cut back to 12'. The pour rate was obviously a little faster, but still foam free. It's all a game of compromise.

Start off with the 15' and if it's OK with you leave it alone. If not feel free to experiment a little. It's always easier, and cheaper, to start with more than you need and cut some off then start with too little and need to replace the whole line.

 

[denimglen]

Awesome, I'll start with 15' and see how I go. I really appreciate your help, this thing had me stumped for a while.

Cheers!

 

[user 4295]

My pleasure mate! That's what we are here for. Let me know how you make out.