concerns around smell and taste after 7 days

[mlumps]

Hi,

I know this question has been asked before and I have read up on here and other sites but I am still uneasy about my brew, the reason I am posting is because this is my 2nd brew and I fear that is going down the road of my first which was undrinkable.

My first home brew was a coopers brew kit (top hat bucket no air lock) while brewing I got some strange smells from it and when tasting a harsh vinegar flavor. I cracked on and after 7+ days I got a the FG settled and bottled the beer * I did not sterilize the bottles and probably did a poor job on the new kit *

When I went to try the beer I found it to be far far to vinegary to drink and I have kept it and used it to cook but even a year on it is still foul to drink.

I talked with a bartender at my local craft brew pub and was told it could be a bacteria infection or caused by a vinegar fly that where around a lot in my area at the time. * the bartender i talked to has now setup his own brewery and is supplying said pub so i trust him.

So now over a year later I decided to try again with the same kit I have but trying coopers real ale *mash?

This time I did sterilize everything very carefully but the same fly's have been about again recently. I am once again concerned, I have just tested my beer for FG on the 7th day and the smell seemed off and when i tasted after taking the measurement I got the Vinegary taste again.

Detail

I used tap water, non boiled - i don't think chlorine is an issue.

dry yeast - sprinkled on top and left as per instructions

started on 6/11/13
og 1033
fg pt 1 - 1003 *today 12/11/13

I added the yeast as per instructions so temps where between 21 and 27 Celsius

I have been keeping the beer between 21-27 as best I can the last 7 days but I fear it may of dipped below 21 to around 20 so I added some blankets ect to help keep the heat in sat it next to the radiator add a bit of warmth in the evening.

So I wanted a bit of advice in general but also on the following.

1. should I be concerned?
2. I have read that I should keep the beer in the primary fermenter for 3 weeks before bottling (instructions say 6 then test FG till it settles then bottle) so should I just leave it for now.
3. If the beer is spoiled again how can i avoid this a 3rd time.

Sorry if this is asking the same questions others have asked.

 

[Stauffbier]

Since you're not boiling your water it could be an infection. Especially if it's turning to vinegar. Also 21-27 Celsius is a bit warm. You would probably be better off at 18-20.. Fermenting too warm can cause very strong off flavors.

 

[mlumps]

What would you advice my instructions say recommend temp range for adding yeast and fermentation is 21-27c and or max range 18-31c.

Not sure if should see this attempt through or try again.

 

[stevehardt]

A few questions:

1. Are you following the directions provided in the kit?
2. Does anything appear to be growing on the top of the beer? Anything stringy or ropy? Check out the infection thread on this forum to get a better idea of what in infection looks like
2. You may be rushing the beer. Give it at least 14-21 days in the fermenter, and make sure you're gravity readings are consistent for 3 days before bottling
3. You can't judge a beer by taste or smell after 7 days. I've had beer that smells like Satan's a%$ and taste worse at 7 days that aged into decent beer.
4. I would encourage you to give your current batch time. Let it sit for 3 weeks and see how it turns out. It deserves a chance to be beer!

Just my 2 cents

 

[Demus]

Read a good book like Yeast or How to Brew. Your questions take a book to answer...

 

[mlumps]

1. Following the guide step by step, puzzled that others are saying to ferment at lower temps and to leave in primary longer but I will take that advice.

2. just a bit of white foam (very thin) and some clumps of what look like yeast or sediment - I have just moved the fermenter away from the radiator so could of stirred it up. (reading the thread now)

3 / 4 - will do and will update this post as things go.

A few questions:

1. Are you following the directions provided in the kit?
2. Does anything appear to be growing on the top of the beer? Anything stringy or ropy? Check out the infection thread on this forum to get a better idea of what in infection looks like
2. You may be rushing the beer. Give it at least 14-21 days in the fermenter, and make sure you're gravity readings are consistent for 3 days before bottling
3. You can't judge a beer by taste or smell after 7 days. I've had beer that smells like Satan's a%$ and taste worse at 7 days that aged into decent beer.
4. I would encourage you to give your current batch time. Let it sit for 3 weeks and see how it turns out. It deserves a chance to be beer!

Just my 2 cents

 

[jro238]

Vinegar flavors in beer are almost always caused by an acetobacter infection (which, as you say in your post, is commonly found on fruit flies). I'm not sure what a top hat bucket is, but you say no airlock. Is this an open fermentation (i.e. open to the air)?

A few suggestions for better beer in the future (these aren't likely the cause of your present problem though):
1) try to keep your fermentation temps in the 18-21 C range for most ale fermentations. you don't really want to be above 21C (70F) unless you are brewing certain beer styles (belgians, saisons, etc).
2) rehydrate your dry yeast in a little warm water before pitching

 

[TungstenBeer]

First of all, I do think if you're keeping fermentation temperature at 27C at any point, that's too hot. But, I wouldn't think that would be causing any vinegary off-flavors. High fermentation would cause more fusel problems, maybe a solvent taste... are you sure it's vinegar tasting and not magic-marker, fusel, solvent, sharply alcoholic, or anything similar?

I agree that you need to leave it a bit longer before you can make the call. Yeast are magnificent creatures; they tend to make a big mess and make beer smell/taste pretty bad, but if you let them have time, they'll actually clean up those compounds themselves!

That being said, while I'm not really familiar with vinegar flies/bugs at all, vinegar off-flavors are almost always caused by an infection. But if you sanitized everything well that comes in contact with the beer after you've cooled the wort, you should be OK.

One other question; do you know if your FG is supposed to be 1.003? That is pretty low for most beers.

 

[Demus]

Fermentation temperature is the least of your problems if your beer tastes like vinegar...

 

[mlumps]

I have done a quick Google and other say their kits ended up at 1008.

As for no air lock, the coopers kit is not open but releases pressure by burping.

I'll lower my temps and will rehydrate the yeast next time.

 

[unionrdr]

Yeah,the cooper's newer DIY fermenter purps under the lid with the krausen collar on to start fermenting. no airlock on the newer design. And 18-21C is def a better ferment temp for ale yeasts. I've found Cooper's ale yeast is comfortable at 66F. lower & it gets sluggish. Their ale yeast def performs better rehydrated for 30 minutes or so. And it is quite true that flies carry Acetobacter.