Computer Geeks Please ITT Tech VS DeVry

[izatt82]

My hunch is that there are more jobs to be had in networking than in security, but it's all about getting that first job. Nobody will care what your training is in once you have an experience history.

first one is a b!tch right now, but after that doors will start to open.

 

[Bobby_M]

If it's DeVry or ITT, I'll just say that my department within a large telecom software company has hired at least 20 Devry grads in the last 15 years and zero from ITT. That's just one tiny tiny sample for ya.

 

[izatt82]

oh and go check out NMAP and wireshark they are your friends

 

[snccoulter]

I have t agree the first one will be a _________ and I have to figure there will be more jobs in Networking than Security but to get your BA in Security you get the AA in networking so I may as well got for both and at least have the undrstand of the security side.

 

[snccoulter]

If it's DeVry or ITT, I'll just say that my department within a large telecom software company has hired at least 20 Devry grads in the last 15 years and zero from ITT. That's just one tiny tiny sample for ya.

Now that is the sore of info I have been looking for. Thanks

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

Since you have a policing background, I would say that is a VERY positive aspect to security. Combine networking and security and you'll definitely have something to work with!

I can't speak for either of Devry or ITT as I have no experience hiring anyone from either.

Don't be afraid to go a lot deeper into certain subjects during your studies than the teacher is teaching. Especially true of the current high-demand positions. Java, .Net, databases (others will chime in I'm sure). I wouldn't sweat it too much on Cobol if they still force you to take it. Just pass the class with a decent grade.

M_C

 

[mpruett]

I disagree, look at how many jobs are out there for IT. Do a simple search on indeed.com and you'll see there are jobs out there. The problem with unemployed IT guys are they are either outdated, live in a limited area, job experience with no education, or they think they are worth more than they are and won't take a job paying less than XXX,XXX.

If you can't get a job, spend $250 to get a new cert and revamp your resume.

I think that the reasons he mentions are the right ones- those guys are usually Y2k or dot-bomb refugees who never should have been in the industry to begin with, but got hired because they could walk and chew gum at the same time back around 1999-2001.

For those of us with real chops, the job market seems to have perked up quite a bit in the past 5-6 months, at least here in the D/FW area.

I'd look into a community college program if you could. AFAIK, nowhere I"ve worked has hired DeVry or ITT grads for much of anything.

 

[o4_srt]

also, here is a common problem. someone is trying to connect remotely to a server (doesn't matter what application or protocol for this) they cannot connect. what are the first troubleshooting steps to narrow this problem down? if you don't know just ask and we can help you learn your first little pieces of the dark basement world. hahahahaha "how many times did you restart?"

******* operator knocked his cat5/6/fiber cable while laughing his ass off at dumb YouTube videos, cable is now disconnected.

Problem solved. It's usually operator error.

 

[dallasdb]

I have t agree the first one will be a _________ and I have to figure there will be more jobs in Networking than Security but to get your BA in Security you get the AA in networking so I may as well got for both and at least have the undrstand of the security side.

You DON'T have to get an AA first! That is a way for a school to get more $$$ out of you. If you want a Bachelors get enrolled in a Bachelors from the beginning.

Seriously check out Westwood College, Bachelors of Science in Information Technology: Major in Systems Security is only 36 months. You learn both network admin and security.

PM me your personal email and I will give you my buddies name to call and get honest info from. He is a student and loves the program.

 

[RiverCityBrewer]

I went through DeVry also several years ago, and while I couldn't recommend it if you are footing the bill, if someone else is paying it go ahead. I was in the same situation as you in the early 2000's and I was working a dead end job with terrible hours (lots of OT) and I just couldn't swing going to an actual school, so online was it for me. At the time there was DeVry, Phoenix, and some other school that I can't remember and that was about it. I chose DeVry, went through the IT course in security and at the moment I work for the government doing IT security (I was hired just before I graduated) and I do security consulting work on the side. Granted, I didn't go in with no knowledge of the subject matter, actually quite the opposite, but there weren't many programs that recognized IT security skills as an actual degree. There are lots of naysayers here about the school, but I would love to compare W2's with them.

Bobby was dead on about some of the peers there, but the teachers definitely know their stuff. However when I think back to when I was at a large state university, many of my peers that were there are still delivering pizzas now if that tells you anything. Some of the coursework was slightly dated, but then again so are many of the certs I have taken lately. DeVry is accredited by the Higher Learning Commission which is recognized by the Dept of Education, so just like any other college, you can transfer credits to schools that are accredited by the same people but anything else is a crapshoot.

Like any college education, you are going to have to work hard to succeed, but some seem to think that a degree entitles them to something regardless of what they actually know. I can tell you that to get into security you will have to work your ass off both in school and on your own and then convince someone to hire you as an entry level security analyst and work your way up. There is no free lunch.

Good luck.

 

[snccoulter]

You DON'T have to get an AA first! That is a way for a school to get more $$$ out of you. If you want a Bachelors get enrolled in a Bachelors from the beginning.

Seriously check out Westwood College, Bachelors of Science in Information Technology: Major in Systems Security is only 36 months. You learn both network admin and security.

PM me your personal email and I will give you my buddies name to call and get honest info from. He is a student and loves the program.

I would look into other schools but Devry and ITT Tech are the ones I was offerd so that is what will be going to. I can't do strictly on line becasue the VA requires in resident courses to get the other bennifits that I will be needing and if I could I would do no on line class work.

What was explaned to me is you go throught the network admin stuff then go on to Security. I will be enroled into a BA security program but will learn the admin part first...

 

[aygov]

I've got a degree from DeVry and I view it more as a slip of paper or a check to put in the box of "Bachelor's Degree in IT or related field". It got me the sys admin job I'm in now and have been in for the last 3 years but something tells me when I go job hunting again where my degree is from will have little to no bearing on my prospects so much as what tech I've worked with and what experience I've gained in my current job.

 

[Patirck]

I understand the desire to get the quick degree that gets you a job asap but I would advise you to take a longer view of things. I was in IT for about 20 years and hired several hundred people over that time. I know of a few DeVry/ITT grads and I have to say that I don't think they learned anything valuable from that schooling. It's great that it won't cost you any money but it will cost you the opportunity to get a more valuable education with the VA benefits you have available to you now.

Get a job in tech support or whatever entry level job you can find and work your way up. And while your doing that use your VA benefits to go to an actual university that is commonly accepted by hiring managers as legitimate. If this means you have to do a year or two in a community college so be it. 10 years from now you will be a much more valuable employee with both experience and a real college degree. By the way - the related field is usually much more valuable than the generic IT degrees. Think about a degree in math or engineering (like biomedical, electrical or chemical). These kinds of sub-specialties are what will be in demand in the future. Better yet, study something unrelated that you find interesting - history, art, music whatever. A B.A. in history from a well respected university and 5 years experience will get you light years ahead of an ITT degree with no experience. If you think your not smart enough for a degree from Stanford or Cal Poly think again - you made it through the military - you are likely smart enough to do anything you set your mind to.

I consider myself lucky to have had a good run in the IT field. I foresaw the big outsourcing binge in the late 90s and started making other career plans and I'm glad I did. I feel a bit like most older airline pilots who would not want their kids to grow up and do the job due to it's change for the worse.

Are you really set on IT? Not to sound like my Jewish mother but, is it too late for medical school? You sound like your pretty young and I would think hard about where you want to be in 10, 20 or 30 years - beyond the paycheck. IT seems like a great way to work in an office environment and make a better paycheck than the guys in accounting but that is changing - and too a large extent isn't really true anymore. Anyways I'm rambling a bit...

My advice is worth every cent you paid for it.

Good luck.

 

[Mongrel]

I'd like to give you another option based on what a friend did. Forget both schools, look for a company that contracts with the pentagon, and go do networking for the Marines for 2 years. You've got your clearance, spend a year or two in the green zone for ~120k a year. Come home, pay off your house, then worry about your networking school.

 

[snccoulter]

I'd like to give you another option based on what a friend did. Forget both schools, look for a company that contracts with the pentagon, and go do networking for the Marines for 2 years. You've got your clearance, spend a year or two in the green zone for ~120k a year. Come home, pay off your house, then worry about your networking school.

70% disablity would never make it throught the medical clearance. If I could deploy to the Green Zone I would not have been medically retired...

 

[o4_srt]

I understand the desire to get the quick degree that gets you a job asap but I would advise you to take a longer view of things. I was in IT for about 20 years and hired several hundred people over that time. I know of a few DeVry/ITT grads and I have to say that I don't think they learned anything valuable from that schooling. It's great that it won't cost you any money but it will cost you the opportunity to get a more valuable education with the VA benefits you have available to you now.

Get a job in tech support or whatever entry level job you can find and work your way up. And while your doing that use your VA benefits to go to an actual university that is commonly accepted by hiring managers as legitimate. If this means you have to do a year or two in a community college so be it. 10 years from now you will be a much more valuable employee with both experience and a real college degree. By the way - the related field is usually much more valuable than the generic IT degrees. Think about a degree in math or engineering (like biomedical, electrical or chemical). These kinds of sub-specialties are what will be in demand in the future. Better yet, study something unrelated that you find interesting - history, art, music whatever. A B.A. in history from a well respected university and 5 years experience will get you light years ahead of an ITT degree with no experience. If you think your not smart enough for a degree from Stanford or Cal Poly think again - you made it through the military - you are likely smart enough to do anything you set your mind to.

I consider myself lucky to have had a good run in the IT field. I foresaw the big outsourcing binge in the late 90s and started making other career plans and I'm glad I did. I feel a bit like most older airline pilots who would not want their kids to grow up and do the job due to it's change for the worse.

Are you really set on IT? Not to sound like my Jewish mother but, is it too late for medical school? You sound like your pretty young and I would think hard about where you want to be in 10, 20 or 30 years - beyond the paycheck. IT seems like a great way to work in an office environment and make a better paycheck than the guys in accounting but that is changing - and too a large extent isn't really true anymore. Anyways I'm rambling a bit...

My advice is worth every cent you paid for it.

Good luck.

I want to mention that young graduates (in any field) are far more knowledgable about computer systems than previous generations. I wouldn't be surprised if this contributed to a shrinking IT field.

Any career heavy in math and science will land you a decent job in the future. Sure, they also require a much more rigorous curriculum, but nothing good comes easily.

I can't name a single person I know (most of my friends have graduate within the last 4 years) that has graduated with a degree in something other than engineering that is currently working in their field. Most (including IT graduates) are serving food or delivering pizza, with thousands of dollars of debt to pay off.

 

[smakudwn]

I've got a degree from DeVry and I view it more as a slip of paper or a check to put in the box of "Bachelor's Degree in IT or related field". It got me the sys admin job I'm in now and have been in for the last 3 years but something tells me when I go job hunting again where my degree is from will have little to no bearing on my prospects so much as what tech I've worked with and what experience I've gained in my current job.

I have a degree from ITT and this is pretty much what I think. Got me the job I have now, but I don't really use anything I learned.

 

[dallasdb]

I can't name a single person I know (most of my friends have graduate within the last 4 years) that has graduated with a degree in something other than engineering that is currently working in their field. Most (including IT graduates) are serving food or delivering pizza, with thousands of dollars of debt to pay off.

You can't blame the system. You have control of your future. If you have a degree and are delivering pizzas it is your fault. Obviously you lack motivation and goals or you are delivering pizzas while working on a different goal?
If you live in a small town with little opportunity, save your pizza money, take a chance and move! Quit complaining. I saved up and moved from California to Colorado because job opportunity in California were nil. I had a wife and 2 kids when I moved so don't tell me it can't be done. I left all the rest of my family and my wife's there. I haven't been happier since the move and I don't plan on going back. (sorry about the rant)

The problem with your example is I guarantee you all of your friends thought they were going to get out of college and grab a high paying job within weeks. Try an internship, work from the bottom, take a job with less pay to get a foothold into your field.

The new generation of graduates (prepare for a generalization) haven't been raised to know the value of hard work. They think if I do XYZ I will automatically get to where I want to be.

I got a degree that I'm not using (BA in History) because my dad gave me the worst advice ever, "Study something you like because you'll be learning it for four years."

THANKS DAD!!! However, he also instilled a never say die work ethic and a set of values that made me never give up and to go after what I want. I'm back in College to get my CPA and a Cert in Marketing. It sucks that I didn't originally graduate with a Business degree or Accounting but the experience and degree I have now got me jobs paying double what I would be doing without it.

 

[o4_srt]

Deleted: argumentative and off topic

 

[Patirck]

I want to mention that young graduates (in any field) are far more knowledgable about computer systems than previous generations. I wouldn't be surprised if this contributed to a shrinking IT field.

Any career heavy in math and science will land you a decent job in the future. Sure, they also require a much more rigorous curriculum, but nothing good comes easily.

I can't name a single person I know (most of my friends have graduate within the last 4 years) that has graduated with a degree in something other than engineering that is currently working in their field. Most (including IT graduates) are serving food or delivering pizza, with thousands of dollars of debt to pay off.

Not to get too off topic from the original post but I would sort of disagree with this statement. For the most part, current IT grads with a few years experience have knowledge that is a mile wide and an inch deep. It is not necessarily their fault given the pressures of the workplace and the fact that most people don't stay working in the same technology for nearly as long as they used to. I find that current employees with less than say 8 or 10 years experience are for the most part very good at pretending to know things they really have not spent much time on. Many of them read a few articles on some technology and play with it at home for a few hours and then put it on their resume as if they invented it. I have spent about half of my career on the vendor side of the technology table and you can usually spot the customers who are going to be problem children due to this.

As for new grads not working in the field they have a degree in - if only that were more true. I think people and our society and our economy are better off when they have deeper exposure to knowledge that isn't their for the purely for a paycheck. A little abstract thought is the difference between an inventor and an engineer.

Getting back to the OP - I re read this thread and can the VA really tell you where to go to school? It seems like they would have to provide the benefits regardless of what VA approved school they send you to.

 

[dallasdb]

Getting back to the OP - I re read this thread and can the VA really tell you where to go to school? It seems like they would have to provide the benefits regardless of what VA approved school they send you to.

Voc Rehab people are like gods, they almost have complete control to tell you what you can and can't do and can deny you based on their personal evaluation.

VA benefits are different because you get them for your military service. Not all military qualify for Voc Rehab and even non-military can receive Voc Rehab.

It is a confusing gov't system and unfortunately they do have the power to tell you what you can and can't do.

 

[Fusorfodder]

My gf is in the info sec field and works closely with the different government agencies tied to this field. She mentioned that these agencies want a traditional 4 year degree and or industry standard certifications, and unfortunately not tech schools so much. If one of those two schools will guide you through a certification path (CISSP/ SANS certs) then that would be the one to go with.

 

[Psych]

I didn't read the entire thread but I'd definitely say it's possible to get into a good IT job without any schooling. I have none and work for Disney doing systems admin work, pays good and they pay me to take courses on the side.

ITT and Devry might give you a tiny edge over a non-graduate person for an entry level job, but not worth the effort/expense in my opinion. In past jobs I've not given any extra thought to graduates of either school when selecting potential new employees.

Definitely if you have a knack for technology and know how to learn, fast, you can succeed without those sorts of schools. I'd suggest taking a self-study specialized course from some vendor related to the field you want to get into. ie: VMWare, Cisco, that sort of thing. Even general Microsoft accreditation (MCP) is worth a lot more than these in my opinion.

Good luck in whatever you choose though!

 

[snccoulter]

Voc Rehab people are like gods, they almost have complete control to tell you what you can and can't do and can deny you based on their personal evaluation.

VA benefits are different because you get them for your military service. Not all military qualify for Voc Rehab and even non-military can receive Voc Rehab.

It is a confusing gov't system and unfortunately they do have the power to tell you what you can and can't do.

Very much so like most gov't system...
My Plan is to get my degree, test for all the certs I can get. Then go for a goverment job. I have the 15.5 years of military time I will be able to buy back and also an extra 10 points for being a DV I would be a fool not to take a gov't. I will also be on the must hire side.
I know it is a dumb way to hire people but it is the system and I will use what I can. The way the hiring works for goverment jobs is you take the highest 3 scores and they can hire one of those three unless there is a Vet and they float to the top of the list so you then have the vet and the top 2 scores then the Disabled Vet floats top the top above everyone so you then have the Disabled Vet, the Vet then the highest score, but you cannot hire a Non Vet over a Vet. But the Vet must have the skills to do the job to be conciderd for the job. Can they screw it up any more (I am sure they can) but that is the program that is used.

 

[dallasdb]

Very much so like most gov't system...
My Plan is to get my degree, test for all the certs I can get. Then go for a goverment job. I have the 15.5 years of military time I will be able to buy back and also an extra 10 points for being a DV I would be a fool not to take a gov't. I will also be on the must hire side.
I know it is a dumb way to hire people but it is the system and I will use what I can. The way the hiring works for goverment jobs is you take the highest 3 scores and they can hire one of those three unless there is a Vet and they float to the top of the list so you then have the vet and the top 2 scores then the Disabled Vet floats top the top above everyone so you then have the Disabled Vet, the Vet then the highest score, but you cannot hire a Non Vet over a Vet. But the Vet must have the skills to do the job to be conciderd for the job. Can they screw it up any more (I am sure they can) but that is the program that is used.

You earned it... use it!

Thanks for your service to our country. Good luck in whatever you choose.

 

[Patirck]

I didn't read the entire thread but I'd definitely say it's possible to get into a good IT job without any schooling. I have none and work for Disney doing systems admin work, pays good and they pay me to take courses on the side.

ITT and Devry might give you a tiny edge over a non-graduate person for an entry level job, but not worth the effort/expense in my opinion. In past jobs I've not given any extra thought to graduates of either school when selecting potential new employees.

Definitely if you have a knack for technology and know how to learn, fast, you can succeed without those sorts of schools. I'd suggest taking a self-study specialized course from some vendor related to the field you want to get into. ie: VMWare, Cisco, that sort of thing. Even general Microsoft accreditation (MCP) is worth a lot more than these in my opinion.

Good luck in whatever you choose though!

I could not agree with this more. A technical certification from a vendor for a very specific technology is probably the best was to get a good start in todays technology field. Cisco and Microsoft are now and will be for the foreseeable future be in very steady demand. Be weary of more off the wall stuff. I can't think of all the fly by night (or at least not very long lasting) technologies that tried to give themselves a leg up on the competition by offering a certification.

I actually live up the street from Disney and have several friends who work their in various forms of IT. Two that I can think of don't have any degree or special certifications - they just got a job at a place doing something IT related and worked there way up. One is a programmer and one is in management. The programmer is actually the person who got me into homebrewing!

 

[ACbrewer]

OP - I can't say which school I can say that school gives you what you get out of it.

I can also say it sounds like you want to work keeping teh computers running in some Gov't office. For DoD (and children like DoN, etc) what you need for that is 2 types of certification - 1 is Security (CISSP, SANS, GIAC) the level of that will determine in part the level you can work on, and operating system -(Cisco, Microsoft, Solaris, etc)again the dificulty of this determins the level they let you have.

So as it was said before, go for the place that gets you the Certs, or teaches you for the Certs. A MCTIP or CCNA with a CISSP can pretty much work on any Micorsoft or Cisco install. And yes being a vet helps getting hired. I can tell you that the actual program itself - BA in Network security or whatever - doesn't as much matter to the gov't as having the Certs, they make the 8570 certification go round (and round)....and that 8570 is REQUIRED to do DoD IT support.

 

[malkore]

I tend to make fun of graduates of both schools.

So, neither.

 

[weirdboy]

Yes these are the only two that commuting to would work Otherwise I am driving 3 or 4 hours one way.

Do you really live in Hanford? I am pretty sure there's plenty of good schools in that area. e.g. CSU has a campus in Fresno. You could also try UC Davis, Berkeley, and many others.

 

[Psych]

I could not agree with this more. A technical certification from a vendor for a very specific technology is probably the best was to get a good start in todays technology field. Cisco and Microsoft are now and will be for the foreseeable future be in very steady demand. Be weary of more off the wall stuff. I can't think of all the fly by night (or at least not very long lasting) technologies that tried to give themselves a leg up on the competition by offering a certification.

I actually live up the street from Disney and have several friends who work their in various forms of IT. Two that I can think of don't have any degree or special certifications - they just got a job at a place doing something IT related and worked there way up. One is a programmer and one is in management. The programmer is actually the person who got me into homebrewing!

Haha, nice! Maybe I know them Though I'm in the Canadian office in BC, but we work pretty close with the folks in Glendale. IT-wise, at least