Completely vapor locked - Help me pick a turn key system

[1atom12]

Greetings all,
I have read this forum till my eyes have bled. I am a long time extract brewer making the jump to an all grain electric system. 240 volt install was completed yesterday (30 amp). I have a 60x24 table on the left with a commercial sink to the right of that. My plan is control panel to the left of the table (wall mounted). On the table from left to right will be the HLT then MT with BK all the way to the right. This will allow me to run a steam slayer (1.5 inch already ordered) as I will have water supply and drain right next to the boil kettle.

I think I have narrowed it down to either a Spike 15 gallon system or the Ss Brewtech 20 gallon system. The Spike is a Herms setup and the Brewtech is a single infusion MT. There is an obvious cost savings going with the Ss Brewtech setup as their turnkey setup includes a 14 conical or unitank. Price with the Unitank all in is $4600. The Spike 15 gallon turn key system is $5000 with no fermenter included. So basically a grand more than the Ss setup if I add a CF10 to the order.

I would like the flexibility to do 5 or 10 gallon batches.

Any advice would be appreciated. Again, zero experience with all grain.

Thanks in advance!

 

[FatDragon]

Do you know anyone with an all grain brewing system? Maybe an LHBS that holds brewdays that customers can sit in on? That's a big investment for not having any experience with all grain. I'd see if I could get a brewday on a three vessel setup and maybe a nice EBIAB setup as well before dumping that much money into equipment.

For what it's worth, recirculation seems like a significant quality upgrade, but is it worth an extra grand for a system that might have capacity issues with ten gallon batches over 1.060 or so? I'd struggle with that math, but then the idea of spending fifty Benjamins on a brewing system is way out of my budget, so I can't make that call for you.

The basic things I'd be looking at, beyond major research on quality and usability from the perspective of actual owners, are recirculation vs larger capacity.

 

[mongoose33]

Wow, when you jump, you really jump!

I'm including a pic of my system below, which is similar to yours in layout. However, rather than a HERMS kettle I use a RIMS approach. It's still a 3-vessel system, if you think about it; the RIMS tube is the 3rd vessel.

A couple observations:

I have both 10-gallon and 20-gallon kettles, depend on the size of the batch I want to do. They're configured the same, i.e., element, temp sensors, etc. I just swap kettles and go.

I just did a single-infusion 10-gallon batch using the 20-gallon kettle. There's no way that all that water and grain would have fit in a 15-gallon kettle. Now, if you want to sparge, that's not as relevant.

It strikes me that the costs you quote are pretty high, though that is in part because I sort of pieced my system together. I have about $1500 in my Spike CF10 fermenter--including temperature control--but having the rest cost you $3500 seems high. I just re-spec'd a new CF10 including leg extensions, casters to roll it around, bracing shelf, carb stone, CIP ball, pressure manifold, sight glass--and it comes in at $1415. Free shipping from Spike.

If you're buying a panel, figure $1000 more or less. Twenty-gallon kettles from Spike are $295, plus valves and thermometers and additional ports. Figure $400 each kettle.

My RIMS system cost about $350, that's controller, RIMS tube, element, and cord.

I run the RIMS off a separate controller than the BK; I also built my BK panel, though I could have bought it assembled for about $650.

Pump: $200 for a Riptide, a little less if you fiddle with other brands.

Counterflow Chiller: Let's say $200.

Various fittings and connectors and hoses and clamps and such: $250.

What's that all add up to?

Pump: $200
Chiller: $200
Fittings, clamps, etc.: $250
Kettles (two 20-gallon): $800
Panel: $1000
RIMS: $350
Fementer (CF10): $1415
Heating Element: $75 (5500-watt ULWD)

So the above is... $4290. Including the CF10 with temperature control kit and all the fixin's. That makes Spike's total numbers look high, though again it's RIMS and not a HERMS system.

Now, if your heart is set on HERMS, you have to add an additional kettle and heating element, so that's more expensive than the RIMS setup I have.

****

I just looked at the SS Brewtech system. Seems like it's all there except I couldn't see a chiller. Couple of pumps. Control panel. Fermenter.

I've gone back and forth about which fermenter, SSBt or Spike. I lean toward the Spike but it's a close thing. Easier to clean. @Morrey has several SSbt fermenters and he does great things with them.

In the end, it's kind of six of one, half dozen of another.

****
Here's a thought: it would appear you could buy the SSBt system AND add a Spike CF10 to the mix, for about the same or less money than the Spike system plus their fermenter.

That would give you two fermenters. Use both, sell the one you like less?


****

Anyway, those are some thoughts. I admire your courage to jump into all-grain without ever having done a small version of it. I hope you have someone locally who can help you through the process.

It's fun, I envy your position and the excitement that comes with it.

****

Here's my setup; it's very similar to yours in that I have a sink on the right-hand side my Steam Slayer drains to. You can see the RIMS tube in front of the mash tun on the left, the black control panel on the wall is the RIMS controller, and the other controls pumps and the BK.

 

[1atom12]

I know no one with an all grain setup near me. My closest HBS doesn't have a setup in the store. I am just south of Atlanta BTW.

Not really interested in EBIAB as I have the room for a 3 vessel setup.

Crazy that I can't find any info on the Ss Brewtech 2V turnkey system. I guess they don't sell many of these? I can find no chatter about their setup anywhere online.

 

[philm63]

Used to live in Sugar Hill (north of Atlanta) and shopped at Brew Depot in Alpharetta - they used to do brewing classes there, perhaps they still do - worth checking out if you haven't already. They'd be able to get you started with your all-grain set up and the owner, Bob, is a wealth of knowledge. Also it may not be too bad of an idea to consider joining a club, if you aren't already in one. At Brew Depot, they also have the Brewmasters of Alpharetta, I used to be a member when I lived there - great bunch of brewers who would also help you get your feet wet with AG and brewing on a new system.

 

[Vale71]

I would like the flexibility to do 5 or 10 gallon batches.

That rules out the SSB Unitank then, unless you also want to buy a second tank with 7 gal capacity. The placement of the cooling coil in the SSB tank doesn't allow cooling of batches smaller than about 8 gal.

 

[1atom12]

Just to update everyone, I pulled the trigger yesterday on a full Spike 20 gallon turnkey setup with a CF10 fermenter. This is probably overkill for me right now, but I should not need to upgrade down the road. I appreciate everyone's help! More questions to come as I start receiving boxes.

Thanks again,
Adam

 

[SpikeBrewing]

Just to update everyone, I pulled the trigger yesterday on a full Spike 20 gallon turnkey setup with a CF10 fermenter. This is probably overkill for me right now, but I should not need to upgrade down the road. I appreciate everyone's help! More questions to come as I start receiving boxes.

Thanks again,
Adam

Thanks for the support and welcome to the Spike family!!

 

[Brewfreedom]

Greetings all,
I have read this forum till my eyes have bled. I am a long time extract brewer making the jump to an all grain electric system. 240 volt install was completed yesterday (30 amp). I have a 60x24 table on the left with a commercial sink to the right of that. My plan is control panel to the left of the table (wall mounted). On the table from left to right will be the HLT then MT with BK all the way to the right. This will allow me to run a steam slayer (1.5 inch already ordered) as I will have water supply and drain right next to the boil kettle.

I think I have narrowed it down to either a Spike 15 gallon system or the Ss Brewtech 20 gallon system. The Spike is a Herms setup and the Brewtech is a single infusion MT. There is an obvious cost savings going with the Ss Brewtech setup as their turnkey setup includes a 14 conical or unitank. Price with the Unitank all in is $4600. The Spike 15 gallon turn key system is $5000 with no fermenter included. So basically a grand more than the Ss setup if I add a CF10 to the order.

I would like the flexibility to do 5 or 10 gallon batches.

Any advice would be appreciated. Again, zero experience with all grain.

Thanks in advance!

If you source your pumps and controller elesewhere you can do the spike system much cheaper. Custom kettle order + various parts you will need. Just email them and they can take care of the rest. - never mind looks like you already bought it.

 

[Brewfreedom]

Just to update everyone, I pulled the trigger yesterday on a full Spike 20 gallon turnkey setup with a CF10 fermenter. This is probably overkill for me right now, but I should not need to upgrade down the road. I appreciate everyone's help! More questions to come as I start receiving boxes.

Thanks again,
Adam

You won't regret it. The spike 20 kettles are great.