Complete Water Ignorance: Help Me Understand

[jblack138]

So I'm wanting to brew my 3rd batch of beer & water is going to be my new focus over everything else.

Just theoretically speaking, help me understand using Distilled/RO/Spring vs Tap water. Obviously the first 3 are filtered to eliminate chlorine & the like from drinking water, but what is left mineral wise?

This is pretty daunting stuff, so I'm not super concerned with water additions at the moment. What's the prospect of using filtered water with 0 additions to brew an extract basic American Pale Ale? I know that adding gypsum, etc. will help, but I'm a complete and total newbie so I'm baby stepping here.

I have been doing some research & looking into getting a detailed water report for my area. I have a small grasp on this extensive subject, but I really need someone to explain it in idiot terms. I'm not a science guy so it's taking a while to sink in.

Any help is appreciated!

 

[schematix]

Just theoretically speaking, help me understand using Distilled/RO/Spring vs Tap water. Obviously the first 3 are filtered to eliminate chlorine & the like from drinking water, but what is left mineral wise?
Any help is appreciated!

Are you doing all grain or extract? If extract, it's typically recommended that you just use RO or Distilled. If all grain, then you've come to the right place.

I highly suggest that you download Bru'n'water and read the Water Knowledge tab. It's a phenomenal resource. It'll answer your questions about the different water sources and just about everything else you would need to know.

 

[JonM]

Yes - Question #1 is extract or all-grain?

 

[jblack138]

I know there's going to be a difference, but just for beginners, an extract. I'd like to do a partial mash, but I don't want to muddy the waters too much. I'll stick to extract until things make a little more sense.

I'm getting ready to download Bru'n Water right now! It looks overwhelming but I think I can get the hang of it after I get hands on with it.

My main thing is just getting a grasp of water. It seems so simple, but I feel like I'm studying for a PhD at a Kindergarten level.

 

[schematix]

I know there's going to be a difference, but just for beginners, an extract. I'd like to do a partial mash, but I don't want to muddy the waters too much. I'll stick to extract until things make a little more sense.

I'm getting ready to download Bru'n Water right now! It looks overwhelming but I think I can get the hang of it after I get hands on with it.

My main thing is just getting a grasp of water. It seems so simple, but I feel like I'm studying for a PhD at a Kindergarten level.

Water chemistry is extremely complex. To be an expert you really do need a PhD. Fortunately Martin has given us Bru'n Water so that us Kindergartners can do it too.

At this point in your brewing career i'd suggest making sure you have proper fermentation temperature control before you start spending a lot of time on water. If you're fermenting hot it won't matter what you did to your water.

Most filtered tap waters will give you acceptable results for a wide range of beers. Unless your water is contaminated or is extremely alkaline, you will likely have good results for most beers. Very light beers, very dark beers or very hoppy beers are where water chemistry will make the most difference.

 

[ajdelange]

So I'm wanting to brew my 3rd batch of beer & water is going to be my new focus over everything else.

Water should definitely not be your focus on your third batch of beer. And yet, if you brew with 'bad' water your beer will not be very good. What you need, then, is a KISS, sure fire water preparation method that will allow you to concentrate on the other aspects of brewing. When you are up to speed on that then you can move on to refining the water treatment to transition from good to very good beers. Fortunately if you have RO water available all you need to do is add 1/2 to 1 tsp of calcium chloride to each 5 gallons of it. You can brew anything with that. Or use 1/4 - 1/2 tsp each of calcium chloride and gypsum. This adds some sulfate which gives certain character to the hops that some dislike and some love.

Just theoretically speaking, help me understand using Distilled/RO/Spring vs Tap water. Obviously the first 3 are filtered to eliminate chlorine & the like from drinking water, but what is left mineral wise?

After RO or distillation the mineral contents are low - low enough that you can consider the water to be mineral free for brewing intents and purposes. DI water (RO or distilled water which has been passed through an ion exchanger) water is mineral free. Spring water and tap water contain whatever minerals are in the spring or in the source the water authority draws from minus whatever they take out plus whatever they add it.

This is pretty daunting stuff, so I'm not super concerned with water additions at the moment. What's the prospect of using filtered water with 0 additions to brew an extract basic American Pale Ale? I know that adding gypsum, etc. will help, but I'm a complete and total newbie so I'm baby stepping here.

Use the KISS recommendation give above. You will be fine. There is one more little detail: you will need some acid. See the Primer (in the Stickies) for additional details. It's still at the KISS level though.

Water chemistry is not difficult but it is intricate. You certainly do not need a PHD to understand it. It is all freshman level chemistry and you don't even need that if you use the KISS approach. If you decide to go on and become an 'expert' what you must do is put a brewing perspective on that freshman level chemistry and that takes time and brewing sessions under your belt.

 

[jblack138]

Fortunately if you have RO water available all you need to do is add 1/2 to 1 tsp of calcium chloride to each 5 gallons of it. You can brew anything with that. Or use 1/4 - 1/2 tsp each of calcium chloride and gypsum. This adds some sulfate which gives certain character to the hops that some dislike and some love.

After RO or distillation the mineral contents are low - low enough that you can consider the water to be mineral free for brewing intents and purposes. DI water (RO or distilled water which has been passed through an ion exchanger) water is mineral free. Spring water and tap water contain whatever minerals are in the spring or in the source the water authority draws from minus whatever they take out plus whatever they add it.

Use the KISS recommendation give above. You will be fine. There is one more little detail: you will need some acid. See the Primer (in the Stickies) for additional details. It's still at the KISS level though.

Water chemistry is not difficult but it is intricate. You certainly do not need a PHD to understand it. It is all freshman level chemistry and you don't even need that if you use the KISS approach. If you decide to go on and become an 'expert' what you must do is put a brewing perspective on that freshman level chemistry and that takes time and brewing sessions under your belt.

I've read the primer a few times & I'm still scratching my head a bit. My Freshman level chemistry is non existent. Failed it miserably! I don't expect to be an expert any time soon, but a good starting point would suffice and I think I have that now. We'll brew it up and see what happens. Worst case scenario is that I'm back on here trying to figure out where I messed up.

I do sincerely appreciate the help! Thanks a lot!

 

[mabrungard]

Bad water conditions can really degrade your beers, but getting into brewing water chemistry might not be the best thing to concern yourself with in your early brewing adventures. If anyone has a concern that their beers don't taste very good and they don't want to screw with water chemistry stuff, the Water Primer approach that AJ created is a much surer way to better success. It's simple and very usable. When you have otherwise mastered brewing and want to take the next step, that may be a case where trying Bru'n Water can pay off.

Baby steps!!

 

[MattPP]

Hey guys, long time reader first time poster. Thought I'd pose this question here as some posters extremely knowledgable in the water area have been active.

I live in Australia and my water report is as follows (values were given as a minimum and maximum).

Alkalinity as CaCO3 55-81
Calcium 21-28
Chloride 75-155
Hardness as CaCO3 63-100
Magnesium 2.6-7.2
Sodium 46-98
Sulphate 7-22
pH 8.03-8.29

If I wanted to use this water as is, would you recommend increasing the low sulphate levels in pale ales/IPA's to try achieve a nice crisp bitterness, or would the high sodium and chloride content combined with more sulhpate just give the beer a rough minerally taste?

 

[ajdelange]

If you like the effects of sulfate then this water is clearly wanting. Best thing to do IMO is to try some beers without augmentation and some with to see which you prefer. Clearly raising sulfate to 200 - 300 is going to increase the total mineral content. A more modest increase might get you close to the desired hops effect without getting the overall mineral impression too high.

 

[MattPP]

Thanks, maybe something about equal to the chloride content?

I'm still relatively inexperienced so havent yet taken note of water chemistry and experienced the effects. Do you think it's achievable to get a nice clean, crisp pale ale taste with that mineral content?

 

[ajdelange]

Yes, I do. It's a matter of taste as to whether you'll like it or not. On the lager side, which I know much better, Export is loaded with minerals and Pilsner Urquell is just the opposite. Both good beers for sure but some prefer one over the other. Experiment with adding salts to finished beer. It can give you a rough idea.

 

[mabrungard]

Hey guys, long time reader first time poster. Thought I'd pose this question here as some posters extremely knowledgable in the water area have been active.

I live in Australia and my water report is as follows (values were given as a minimum and maximum).

Alkalinity as CaCO3 55-81
Calcium 21-28
Chloride 75-155
Hardness as CaCO3 63-100
Magnesium 2.6-7.2
Sodium 46-98
Sulphate 7-22
pH 8.03-8.29

If I wanted to use this water as is, would you recommend increasing the low sulphate levels in pale ales/IPA's to try achieve a nice crisp bitterness, or would the high sodium and chloride content combined with more sulhpate just give the beer a rough minerally taste?

I see that you apparently are aware that either elevated sodium or chloride in conjunction with high sulfate can produce a minerally taste. Your water is on the borderline of concern for this effect if you intend to boost sulfate level for PA and IPA brewing.

While I am a big fan of boosting sulfate for those styles, I urge caution with your water. I suggest trying about 100 ppm sulfate in a batch and see how that is received. Then try boosting the sulfate level in the glass to bring it to 200 to 300 ppm. Of course, dealing with a small volume in the glass also means that you would be adding minute amounts of gypsum to reach those concentrations, so be sure to have a precise scale and measure it out.

If you do want to use a popular high sulfate level of say 300 ppm, you might have to reduce the concentrations of the sodium and chloride in the tap water via dilution. Reducing them by half should take you completely out of the danger zone.