Reverse osmosis question

[OzzyPeeps]

Hi folks.

So I finally got around to buying an R.O. filter - what a game changer.

I am strictly extract and have no plans to go all grain, so it suits me perfectly for brewing.

I read somewhere that "remineralization filters" are basically BS and don't really do a whole lot to properly remineraize the water - and in any case, I wasn't in a position to buy one of the 1000 buck systems with bells and whistles so I went for a cheap aquarium unit on amazon for €70 .... R.O. is R.O., right?

Finerfilters 4 Stage Compact Reverse Osmosis Filter with DI Resin Tropical/Marine/Discus 50/75/100/GPD (100 GPD) : Amazon.co.uk: Pet Supplies

I would like to be ble to use the output for drinking and cooking long term without having to worry about deminerlaization/remineralization etc :

Now my understanding (which I'm beginning to think may have been a misunderstanding) was that the R.O. membrane itself stripped out the calcium and magnesium and other healthy minerals from the water.

But the design of this unit is:

PP sediment filter(rust silt dirt)>>>

activated carbon filter (chlorine taste odour)>>>

R.O. membrane >>>

Resin filter "function: removing calcium as magnesium ions to soften the water">>> output.

So probaly I misinterpreted "RO system" to mean "RO membrane" when I was doing my research ...

If there is someone here who understands this stuff better than me, (and I know there is!! lol)...

What I'm wondering now is...

1) why can't I just disconnect the DI/resin filter from the chain when I want drinking/cooking water and just take the output straight from the RO membrane?

Wouldn't the calcium and magnesium ions pass through the R.O. giving me clean mineralised water for drinking and cooking?

And if so, why in the hell would anyone spend the extra bucks on the remineralization filters?

Can anyone shed some light?

@mabrungard ?

Thanks in advance,

Ozzy

 

[Broken Crow]

It's been my understanding that extract brews don't need chemistry adjustments as that was already taken care of in the mash to produce it, but it may be done for some styles.
Here's a decent thread covering it: Quick Extract Recipe Question: Water Profiles?

 

[OzzyPeeps]

Yep, that's exactly right.

That's why it's perfect for me for brewing.

The question is really about avoiding deminerlaization for drinking water... I may not have been clear enough, have talent for overcomplicating explanations.

 

[Broken Crow]

Sorry about that..I've got brain-damage and I keep missing things. Maybe tagging @Buckeye_Hydro will get the answer you're looking for. They have a good sized customer base on here.

 

[OzzyPeeps]

Cheers bud ... how do I tag?

I a technologically challenged

 

[Broken Crow]

I just did.. you start typing the '@' immediatley followed by the username (no spaces) and you'll start getting a drop-down list of members.. you can finish typing or click on the name. Here's you: @OzzyPeeps

 

[OzzyPeeps]

Awesome, thanks

 

[huckdavidson]

What I'm wondering now is...

1) why can't I just disconnect the DI/resin filter from the chain when I want drinking/cooking water and just take the output straight from the RO membrane?

Wouldn't the calcium and magnesium ions pass through the R.O. giving me clean mineralised water for drinking and cooking?

And if so, why in the hell would anyone spend the extra bucks on the remineralization filters?

Can anyone shed some light?

RO filters strip > 90% of the calcium and magnesium in addition to other trace elements and ions such as Cl, SO4, Na, etc....

1.) Disconnect the DI/Resin filter from the chain
2.) Connect a reminerlization filter if you wish -or- build your own water by adding various water salts back to the RO water

Do an internet search for "Mineral Water Recipes" to give you an idea of where to start.

You could also use a brewing water calculator to build your own mineral water.

 

[mac_1103]

why can't I just disconnect the DI/resin filter from the chain when I want drinking/cooking water and just take the output straight from the RO membrane?

I don't think there's any reason you can't take out anything downstream from the RO membrane, but as was just noted, most of the minerals are probably gone already.

There's really nothing wrong with drinking or cooking with RO/DI water. Yes, your body needs calcium and magnesium and other healthy minerals, but if you're eating well and/or taking a multi-vitamin you're getting all you need and then some. Or maybe you just don't like the (lack of) taste?

 

[OzzyPeeps]

RO filters strip > 90% of the calcium and magnesium

Build your own water by adding various water salts back to the RO water

That's what I needed to know, thanks.

So the DI filter is just to clean up the last 10%?

That was the plan, to build some classic minera water profiles, have the spreadsheet for that, just figured there might be a more elegant short cut

 

[OzzyPeeps]

There's really nothing wrong with drinking or cooking with RO/DI water. Yes, your body needs calcium and magnesium and other healthy minerals, but if you're eating well and/or taking a multi-vitamin you're getting all you need and then some. Or maybe you just don't like the (lack of) taste?

Yeah, it's taste, general perfectionism ad being held Scottish (tight fisted )

I'm in Ireland ... be nice not to have to take supplements and just have everything rolled into the water.

All good back to the drawing board

 

[mabrungard]

There are 2 uses for softening in conjunction with RO treatment. The first is to provide gross softening of very hard water to help avoid having mineral deposits build up (scale) on the membrane and ruin it. This first step is typically performed with cation-exchange (salt) based softening and it is placed before the RO membrane in the process string. It's well suited to knocking down calcium and magnesium content in raw water.

The second softening step is a polishing step to remove the minor amount of ions that make it through the RO process. It's called deioning (DI) and its typically performed by passing the RO product water through a combination of anionic- and cationic-exchange resin beds that strip out virtually all ions from the water. The anionic resin takes out all the negatively charged ions and replaces them with -OH ions. The cationic resin takes out all the positively charged ions and replaces them with H+ ions. The resulting -OH and H+ ions are essentially H2O (water). This process is not easy to regenerate like the salt-based cation exchange process above, so you want to only use it on the purest water that you can get (your RO water).

The need to remineralize or demineralize RO water is pretty low in my opinion. As mentioned, remineralization has an unknown resulting content and you're better off assuming you're dealing with RO water with a relatively fixed content.

For brewing use, demineralization with a DI unit is very much, overkill. Brewing water needs some ionic content and it doesn't make sense to remove the little that is left in RO water and then remineralize with salt additions. Just live with the RO ionic content and remineralize from that starting point.

For those that worry that drinking RO water is not good for your body, humans and animals have been drinking water with RO quality for millenia. It's called rainwater. Drinking it hasn't killed anyone yet (well, I guess you can drink too much water and that can kill you, but that's an outlier).

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I am strictly extract and have no plans to go all grain, so it suits me perfectly for brewing.

That was the plan, to build some classic mineral water profiles, have the spreadsheet for that, just figured there might be a more elegant short cut

With "extract", they take just the water out (and leave the minerals in the extract), so a good starting point is adding back just the water (and avoid adding back 'too many' additional minerals).

Given the known/suspected differences in various brands of extract, it's not clear to me that "classic mineral profiles" can be created for extract. Currently, it's a 'season to taste' approach.

Here's a decent thread covering it: Quick Extract Recipe Question: Water Profiles?

There's some additional insights on adding flavor salt additions to extract recipes in the "no boil" (2019) topics as well as "I brewed a favorite recipe today", "I brewed an experimental recipe a few weeks ago", and "Advanced extract brewing".

 

[Bobby_M]

The only reason to worry about drinking low mineral water is if you feel like you already don't get enough calcium or magnesium in your diet.

 

[Buckeye_Hydro]

Hi folks.
So I finally got around to buying an R.O. filter - what a game changer.
I am strictly extract and have no plans to go all grain, so it suits me perfectly for brewing.
I read somewhere that "remineralization filters" are basically BS and don't really do a whole lot to properly remineraize the water - and in any case, I wasn't in a position to buy one of the 1000 buck systems with bells and whistles so I went for a cheap aquarium unit on amazon for €70 .... R.O. is R.O., right?
Finerfilters 4 Stage Compact Reverse Osmosis Filter with DI Resin Tropical/Marine/Discus 50/75/100/GPD (100 GPD) : Amazon.co.uk: Pet Supplies

I would like to be ble to use the output for drinking and cooking long term without having to worry about deminerlaization/remineralization etc :
Now my understanding (which I'm beginning to think may have been a misunderstanding) was that the R.O. membrane itself stripped out the calcium and magnesium and other healthy minerals from the water.
But the design of this unit is:
PP sediment filter(rust silt dirt)>>>
activated carbon filter (chlorine taste odour)>>>
R.O. membrane >>>
Resin filter "function: removing calcium as magnesium ions to soften the water">>> output.
So probaly I misinterpreted "RO system" to mean "RO membrane" when I was doing my research ...
If there is someone here who understands this stuff better than me, (and I know there is!! lol)...
What I'm wondering now is...
1) why can't I just disconnect the DI/resin filter from the chain when I want drinking/cooking water and just take the output straight from the RO membrane?
Wouldn't the calcium and magnesium ions pass through the R.O. giving me clean mineralised water for drinking and cooking?
And if so, why in the hell would anyone spend the extra bucks on the remineralization filters?
Can anyone shed some light?
Ozzy

So what you bought is called an RODI system, rather than an RO system.
As Martin mentioned above, the DI resin stage after the membrane is overkill for purposes of brewing water. I'd just remove that DI stage.

Your link doesn't work for me so I can't comment in more detail on your system.