Competition beer entry original recipe etiquette

[Grossy]

I have not yet entered a beer competition, but I do foresee it in my future. So I was wondering, what is the original recipe etiquette.

Example: If I download a Pliny the Younger recipe off the net, and then brew an awesome beer, that wins 1st place, have I cheated?

The best beer that I have ever brewed, was "thunderworm's", All-Grain - American Wheat Beer - 2nd place Best of show.

That beer was amazing, and If thunderworm's beer was better than mine, then the God of Beer must have personally taken an interest his batch.

But I feel it would be wrong for me to enter that recipe in a competition.

Has there ever been a dispute?

"Hey that recipe is mine? I published it last year. Home Brew Talk Member "XYZ" even commented on the forum how fantastic a recipe it was, and how great the beer turned out."​

 

[Gavin C]

I don't see any ethical problem. You made the beer on your system on your time and went to great care to package it ship it and paid your entry fee.

All recipes are derivative and 1 recipe made by 5 Brewers will likely have 5 different nuanced flavors if you are good enough to be able to judge. ( I would not be able I'm sure)

Kind of like entering a bake contest and having to disclose it was your grandmother that gave you the recipe for her strawberry sponge on her death bed.

I too have never entered a competition but do plan on doing so.

 

[Teromous]

There's no such thing as cheating so long as you follow the rules. It isn't a recipe competition it's a homebrewing competition. The recipe is only one fraction of the final beer you make.

 

[Darwin18]

There's so many variables that you'd have to replicate to produce an identical beer even using the same recipe. So long as you brewed the beer and follow the competitions rules it's definitely not cheating.

 

[YellowRiver]

Im fairly new to brewing and have entered my beers in contests. I did get some awards, the recipes were certainly based from various methods of web recipe searches, although mostly from this site.
Etiquette wise here is another question. If I publicly tout my awards or if the competition asked for my recipe to publish it, then would at least a public acknowledgement be required?

 

[Oginme]

In my mind, the recipe is about 20% to 30% of the outcome. The brewing process and fermentation have much more influence over the outcome. The Pliny the Elder recipe may be the greatest on earth, but it can be destroyed by poor sanitation, improper handling, and bad fermentation control. As long as the competition does not specify brewing an original recipe and if asked you give credit to the source, you are good to go.

 

[madscientist451]

Is using a recipe in a beer contest you found on line cheating? Absolutely not.
Should you give credit to whomever created the recipe?
You don't have to, but I would say yes, you should. Its just the right thing to do.

 

[Yooper]

Im fairly new to brewing and have entered my beers in contests. I did get some awards, the recipes were certainly based from various methods of web recipe searches, although mostly from this site.
Etiquette wise here is another question. If I publicly tout my awards or if the competition asked for my recipe to publish it, then would at least a public acknowledgement be required?

No, no acknowledgement necessary, but I'm sure it's appreciated. The recipes you find on the internet are published by people who love to share great recipes.

The only time I've been even the tiniest bit irked by a copy of my recipe being touted was a few years back when someone asked me to look at one of my recipes, and change it to extract for them. I did that, and then they asked me to change it for the size boil they had, and the ingredients. I did that. Then, a few months later, the recipe posted on the 'net as "MY version of XXXX clone recipe'.

Um, yeah. Not only was it my recipe, but I rewrote it for the guy, tweeked it, ran it through brewing software and spent a couple of hours working on it for him. I don't care that he brewed it and loved it, but the fact that he claimed ownership of the recipe and technique still bugs me a little.

But otherwise, I LOVE it when someone may mention that they won a BOS at a competition with a recipe I came up with. If they don't mention it, that's cool too. I spend a lot of time trying to make great recipes, and am thrilled when others love it as much as I do!

 

[Nagorg]

Most recipes I've gleaned from here have needed to be modified in varying degrees for my equipment. I almost always wind up adjusting the grist and hops here and there. Also, I often wonder about things like actual AA% listed in recipes; this can vary a lot! Not to mention adjustments for water profile and other process details come into play and are seldom part of "the recipe" as seen in posts. So, generally speaking I'd say that this kinda "makes it yours" when you do that. No issues giving credit to the base source but honestly I've yet to be asked and have only once been required to submit the recipe.

 

[estricklin]

No, no acknowledgement necessary, but I'm sure it's appreciated. The recipes you find on the internet are published by people who love to share great recipes.

The only time I've been even the tiniest bit irked by a copy of my recipe being touted was a few years back when someone asked me to look at one of my recipes, and change it to extract for them. I did that, and then they asked me to change it for the size boil they had, and the ingredients. I did that. Then, a few months later, the recipe posted on the 'net as "MY version of XXXX clone recipe'.

Um, yeah. Not only was it my recipe, but I rewrote it for the guy, tweeked it, ran it through brewing software and spent a couple of hours working on it for him. I don't care that he brewed it and loved it, but the fact that he claimed ownership of the recipe and technique still bugs me a little.

But otherwise, I LOVE it when someone may mention that they won a BOS at a competition with a recipe I came up with. If they don't mention it, that's cool too. I spend a lot of time trying to make great recipes, and am thrilled when others love it as much as I do!

Sorta like when someone writes an article and mentions your recipe, only it's not the actual recipe, and most likely doesn't even taste close to what it's supposed to either........

I honestly don't see any problem with entering another person's recipe in a contest; if you win, or if someone asks about the recipe I do believe it is polite to give a little credit, and it's nothing to be embarrassed about because as others have/will say, it's about YOUR process. The first medal I won was from a beer kit and I didn't feel any less for entering it.

 

[Grossy]

No, no acknowledgement necessary, but I'm sure it's appreciated. The recipes you find on the internet are published by people who love to share great recipes.

I LOVE it when someone may mention that they won a BOS at a competition with a recipe I came up with. If they don't mention it, that's cool too. I spend a lot of time trying to make great recipes, and am thrilled when others love it as much as I do!

There is no way I would enter someone else's recipe without acknowledging them, but after the advice that I have heard here I feel better about entering someone else's recipe.

That said, if you disagree, please tell me so.

Perhaps a follow up to this discussion:

Would you want someone to ask your permission first, before they entered your recipe for their/your brew into a competition?

 

[1977Brewer]

If I post a recipe to the internet, I assume it to be public knowledge. It's out there, anyone can claim it. If it wins a comp, that's fantastic, if you credit me, even better.

 

[Yooper]

No, not at all. I mean, if they brew it, it's theirs. I won't claim the flaws as part of my recipe, but I also won't claim the medal if they win. I know the recipes are solid, or else I wouldn't stake my reputation (such as it is) on the line by posting it. But if YOU win something with it, that is so awesome and if you choose to tell me about it, that makes me very happy to hear of your success, but the recipe is only part of the picture. The rest of the beer is water, temperature control, fermentation techniques, mash pH, and packaging.

If you do well with a recipe I happened to write, that is awesome, and I'd say kudos to you for that.

 

[Teromous]

Would you want someone to ask your permission first, before they entered your recipe for their/your brew into a competition?

No. There's a reason recipes are publicly available...it's because the recipe creator has made it available publicly.

On a side note I feel that if you obtained a recipe publicly and somebody asks you about it then you should tell them and not try to hide it or pretend it is your own creation. If you obtained the recipe from a paid source (like a book) then I would recommend the book. Some books have good recipes in them and if the recipes leak out there's no reason for people to buy the book anymore.

Really I wouldn't get too hung up over it though. If you browse through some of the NHC award winning beers you'll notice that a lot of them are just copies of earlier years...sometimes with slight modifications...or they are copies of other beers you'll see in books or from websites and the name is changed. I'm sure some people care about it but there's more important stuff to worry about.

 

[ram5ey]

Almost all recipes given are a starting point from the author. That is that rarely will it make the same beer on your system without moderate adjustment. You can giv e credit to the authors, but in most competitions there is no recipe info attached the entries as that's just more paperwork. Do whatever you are comfortable with other than what that guy did to Yooper.

 

[ericbw]

What about entering a kit beer in a competition? That's someone else's recipe and they assembled it. Would you use the same name as the kit? That seems like you'd get dinged even if the judge doesn't consciously think about it.

 

[estricklin]

What about entering a kit beer in a competition? That's someone else's recipe and they assembled it. Would you use the same name as the kit? That seems like you'd get dinged even if the judge doesn't consciously think about it.

Judges don't know the name of the beer or who brewed it.

 

[Pappers_]

As has been mentioned before, you're not entering the recipe, you're entering a beer which will be tasted and evaluated.

 

[eric19312]

I think if you brew a recipe from a message board and you win a medal it would be nice to post a thanks on the board and maybe add to the thread with notes about substitutions or changes you made when you brewed it. To me that gives credit to the originator and to the recipe. When I look for a HBT recipe I tend to look first at the recipes with the longest threads.

 

[kombat]

Kind of like entering a bake contest and having to disclose it was your grandmother that gave you the recipe for her strawberry sponge on her death bed.

I have to admit, this made me smile.

[Scene: Hospital room; grandmother is on the bed, surrounded by loved ones, including her 30-year old grandson Billy, a homebrewer]

Grandmother's daughter, Jenny: Relax, mom, the doctors say it won't be long now.

Grandma: *cough* Where's Billy? Are you there, Billy? Come close, Billy, I want to tell you something.

Billy, leaning in: What is it, Nanna?

Grandma: Closer, Billy. I don't want the others to hear.

Billy: I'm listening, Nanna.

Grandma: Do you have a pen?

Billy: Yes, right here.

Grandma: Listen closely, and keep this to yourself. Swear to me.

Billy: Of course, Nanna, whatever you want.

Grandma: OK. Here goes. Are you ready?

Billy: Yes.

Grandma pauses, takes a deep breath, and begins whispering to Billy.

"10 pounds pilsner malt. 2 pounds flaked wheat. 8 ounces Honey malt. Mash at 152. 152, Billy, do you hear me? That's very important. Now, the hopping schedule, pay attention, it's complicated ...."

 

[Gavin C]

I have to admit, this made me smile.

[Scene: Hospital room; grandmother is on the bed, surrounded by loved ones, including her 30-year old grandson Billy, a homebrewer]

Grandmother's daughter, Jenny: Relax, mom, the doctors say it won't be long now.

Grandma: *cough* Where's Billy? Are you there, Billy? Come close, Billy, I want to tell you something.

Billy, leaning in: What is it, Nanna?

Grandma: Closer, Billy. I don't want the others to hear.

Billy: I'm listening, Nanna.

Grandma: Do you have a pen?

Billy: Yes, right here.

Grandma: Listen closely, and keep this to yourself. Swear to me.

Billy: Of course, Nanna, whatever you want.

Grandma: OK. Here goes. Are you ready?

Billy: Yes.

Grandma pauses, takes a deep breath, and begins whispering to Billy.

"10 pounds pilsner malt. 2 pounds flaked wheat. 8 ounces Honey malt. Mash at 152. 152, Billy, do you hear me? That's very important. Now, the hopping schedule, pay attention, it's complicated ...."

I hope she gets to the fermentation schedule before she croaks it. I held my breath throughout your post to heighten the suspense.

 

[ianw58]

When he was still in Temecula, being at Blind Pig, I had the good fortune to be with Vinnie. He told me that I could be his recipe on his equipment with his ingredients and people would be able to tell my beers from his.

I recently entered my Porter in a local being competition and took first place. One of the judges later told me that he knew who's beer it was the minute he tasted it because it tasted like it came from my brewery.

It's a "personality" thing.

Brewing is an individual thing. Steeling a recipe and calling it your own is not.

 

[Gavin C]

I don't see how using a recipe in the public domain is stealing.

If I had the ability to create a recipe, intelligently tweak and improve it and self-critique it to deem it worthy of publication, I would be only too delighted if someone had success using it; success either on the personal satisfaction end or in a competition.

If I entered a beer of mine and someone asked out of curiosity where or how I had formulated it I would of course give credit where it's due. That is only normal social conduct. It's still my beer though. I created it. Using another's recipe would not diminish my sense of pride if I am happy with the beer nor should it tarnish a medal that someone has earned.

I'm not a commercial brewer, I have no bent on ever being one, I have no trade secrets to protect from thievery. I think it would be impossible to reinvent the wheel each time a beer is crafted. How can one be sure the recipe or something near identical is already out there in the ether. It matters not a jot anyhow because the beers will be different.

 

[beergolf]

Recipes cannot be patented. Anyway just how much variation can there be and still have the brew meet a specific style? As others have mentioned, 10 brewers could make the same recipe and you would get different results. There are a ton of variables in making beer.

Using a recipe you found online or anywhere else is just a small part of the brew. I see no problem with it.

 

[GarageDweller]

Its not the golden egg thats most valuable; its the g'dam goose that lays 'em.

 

[NTexBrewer]

It may actually be good to brew an already published award winning beer and enter it into a competition.

If you score well with this recipe then you know that you have a good brewing process.

If you do not score well then you know that the recipe is solid so you have to make adjustments to your brewing process.

 

[BrotherGrim]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/recipe-etiquette-366013/

Thought I would post this link as it is relevant. It makes a pretty good read too.

 

[estricklin]

I have to admit, this made me smile.

[Scene: Hospital room; grandmother is on the bed, surrounded by loved ones, including her 30-year old grandson Billy, a homebrewer]

Grandmother's daughter, Jenny: Relax, mom, the doctors say it won't be long now.

Grandma: *cough* Where's Billy? Are you there, Billy? Come close, Billy, I want to tell you something.

Billy, leaning in: What is it, Nanna?

Grandma: Closer, Billy. I don't want the others to hear.

Billy: I'm listening, Nanna.

Grandma: Do you have a pen?

Billy: Yes, right here.

Grandma: Listen closely, and keep this to yourself. Swear to me.

Billy: Of course, Nanna, whatever you want.

Grandma: OK. Here goes. Are you ready?

Billy: Yes.

Grandma pauses, takes a deep breath, and begins whispering to Billy.

"10 pounds pilsner malt. 2 pounds flaked wheat. 8 ounces Honey malt. Mash at 152. 152, Billy, do you hear me? That's very important. Now, the hopping schedule, pay attention, it's complicated ...."

Haha thanks for that. I pretty much agree except for it usually goes like this:

Grandma: The secret to my German Pilsner is..........it's a Northern Brewer kit except for I switch the Spalt with Tettnang.