Colder condition question

[Qhrumphf]

So I've got a california common chugging away in primary right now. As of yet, I've done strictly ales, as I don't have an extra fridge I can either use (or gut to make a proper fermentation chamber), and with the colder weather had no problem keeping my beers fermenting in the low 60s just sitting by my balcony door. Now that the weather's getting warm, I'm able to keep them at a pretty steady 62 (fluctuating 61-63) by leaving my carboys in bin filled with water and occasionally adding bottles filled with ice.

After another couple weeks (I'll give it a week or so after fermentation is done, let it warm up to room temp, 70 degrees for a day or two for a diacetyl rest), I'm planning on pseudo-lagering the common as close to 50 as I can keep it. Problem is, while adding a lot more ice filled bottles more regularly will enable me to get it to that temp, I'm pretty sure there'll be a lot more temperature fluctuation as I work during the day and have no idea how much it'll warm up. Does anyone know how much, if any negative effects this might have on my brew?

 

[dancness]

Well, ambient air temps and the cooler size will play a part. Once it starts getting warm out that ice will melt rather quickly. The amount of cool water surrounding your carboy will play a part in how quickly it warms up. Less water means it will warm quicker.

My personal opinion? It's going to be really hard, if not impossible to keep the temp at 50F, especially with ambient temps rising as summer approaches. You can certainly give it a try though! I am actually interested in knowing how long you can keep your fermentor cool with that setup. Let us know how it goes.

 

[Qhrumphf]

My bin has to be about 15 gallons, with two 6.5 gallon carboys in it filled most of the way with water, leaving maybe 3 inches below the neck of the carboy above water level. So far one or two gallon water jugs fill with ice twice a day is keeping it in the low 60s. My fear is that I get it to 50 in the AM, and it'll be 60 by the time I get home from work. It's hit the 90s already this week (slightly cooler today), and my AC can't keep it any cooler than 70 in my apartment when it's that hot out. Guess I'll just have to experiment a bit.

My bigger question is, assuming it does fluctuate like mad, is that going to create off flavors? Is it better to try to condition at 50 risking temperature changes or just let it secondary where I have it now and know I can keep it steady? Clarity issues don't concern me as much as taste issues, I just don't want to risk screwing with the yeast and having some bizarre result.

 

[dancness]

Well I'm not too knowledgable about making steam beer, but personally I'd rather have a consistent 60F than a temp fluctuating between 50F and 70F.

Also, is it worth spending all that money to air condition your house to 70F while you are at work all day? I know that if I did that in my house I'd be lookin at huge electric bills. In other words, not an option.

Maybe someone else with more knowledge can chime in, but to me it seems that your current setup is the best you can do with the equipment you have available.

 

[Qhrumphf]

My building doesn't have individually metered electricity. My bill is a weighted average for the whole building. Experience has shown that when it comes to both heat and AC, my bill remains essentially the same whether they're off 24/7 or on 24/7. So I leave it cranked. But that's a separate story.

 

[dancness]

Don't tell that to your neighbors. lol

 

[Qhrumphf]

I am actually interested in knowing how long you can keep your fermentor cool with that setup. Let us know how it goes.

So far, 3 days into pseudo-lagering, two gallons of ice every 8 hours is keeping it between 50 and 53 with ambient air temp around 70. Actually much more effective than I anticipated. Once I have the extra money I'll spring for a chest cooler instead of a plastic bin and I'm sure it'll be even more effective.

 

[dancness]

That's amazing. I gotta try this. Dunno if I could attend to it every 8 hours though...

Do you also have a fan blowing on it to cool it down to the low 50's or are you achieving those temps just with the ice bins?

 

[Qhrumphf]

It's sitting close to my AC unit, so there's some circulation of the coldest air possible, but no direct fan.

Easy enough to maintain. I have four gallon milk jugs filled most of the way with water (enough to allow for freezing expansion without bursting). Two in the freezer, two in the bin. Swap em out when I wake up, after I get home from work, and when I go to bed.

It's working for a decent hold at 50-ish degrees, but I don't know how well this would work for anything colder without an actual insulated cooler.

 

[dancness]

I suspect it's the cold breeze from the AC unit that is allowing you to get the temp down to the low 50's. If the AC is nearby the cooler, it's shooting out much colder air than 70F to get the room temp down to 70F, which means it produces a mild form of refridgeration in the immediate area.

Anyway, I think I will still try this method although I will likely only get down to the low 60's using a plastic tote and blocks of ice. But the low 60's are exactly what I need for the ales I'm making, and it's certainly better than the mid 70's (my indoor ambient temp).

Thanks for sharing your setup.