Cold crashing suck back solutions

[The_Bishop]

Who the hell said I don't believe in it?

I absolutely think it's something that needs to be controlled post ferment, and something to pay attention to elsewhere in the process. However, some of the 'solutions' offered up are getting a bit out of hand, along with claims that 'every beer I ever had was oxidized!'

As for the rest? I'll just leave this here:

1. Lower ABV = better beer

2. Low Oxygen = great. Telling everyone about LoDO and watching them flip their shat = priceless.

 

[gromitdj]

...Back on topic! I meant to post someone else's brilliant design, but I couldn't remember their username or find the thread. Helpful, right? Anyway, as I remember, it was a carboy cap rigged with a co2 qd and a balloon on a tee. Basically, they could put 1 or 2 psi on to keep everything equalized, and the ballon was just a safety valve of sorts. Pretty nifty.

I'm pretty sure you are referring to day_trippr's solution, but I'm not sure what thread he put it in. I'll have to take a look around...

Edit: Here's one of his posts about it Cold Crashing

 

[schematix]

Who the hell said I don't believe in it?

I absolutely think it's something that needs to be controlled post ferment, and something to pay attention to elsewhere in the process. However, some of the 'solutions' offered up are getting a bit out of hand, along with claims that 'every beer I ever had was oxidized!'

As for the rest? I'll just leave this here:

You're taking 2 of my comments out of context.

1. My comment about all beer being oxidized is not what I said. I was referring to micro brew pub beer.

2. That LoDO quote was from another thread. In this thread we weren't talking about LoDO, which has a hot side component not being discussed here.

 

[afro_lou]

I'm pretty sure you are referring to day_trippr's solution, but I'm not sure what thread he put it in. I'll have to take a look around...

Edit: Here's one of his posts about it Cold Crashing

That's the one! Thanks for tracking that down!

 

[smalloy88]

Here's what I've been doing for a year or so now.

After primary ferment is over and I'm getting ready to cold crash, I'll attach a bag filled with CO2 to the fermenter. Anything it's pulling into the fermenter is CO2.

This is on my conical. You can use the same thing in a carboy, just put the tube into a bung. The bag I use on my conical is a 2 gallon ziplock. To attach the tubing, I'll cut a small part of the corner off, just enough to make a hole that's a bit smaller than the tubing, then push the tubing through from the inside. Seal with a wrap or two of high quality electrical tape on the outside.

It's cheap and easy, and it minimizes O2 pickup.

In your experience, about how much of the 2 gallons is displaced during fermentation? Do you ever have to charge more co2 into the bag? I'm debating using your method or just pressure transferring into a purged corny before I cold crash and dry hop. I'm doing a huge DIPA with majority of the hops coming in the dry hop, so I want to prevent all air exposure.

 

[The_Bishop]

On cold crash? The bag usually drops by about 1/2 or so.

So far so good, haven't had any post-ferm oxidation and some of my kegs, especially the high-gravity stuff, last 1-2 months.

 

[oceanic_brew]

Jaybird made the mason jar toppers to help me deal with suck back. I'm not saying it's going to keep 100% of the air out but with the batches I have used it on so far, there has been zero suck back. I thought the fluid may suck back into the second mason jar when cold crashing, but I haven't had that happen yet.

This is the winner for me. I'm gonna build these.

I can imagine what to do but what do I need for the fittings through the mason lids?

 

[Dolomieu]

This is the winner for me. I'm gonna build these.

I can imagine what to do but what do I need for the fittings through the mason lids?

http://www.norcalbrewingsolutions.com/store/Krausen-Catcher-4-Nipples.html

http://www.norcalbrewingsolutions.com/store/Krausen-Catcher-2-Nipples-Grommet.html

There are threads​ with diy versions​, but I had Jay make those for me because the diy versions were clunky and I was having trouble improving on the design. Then he started the one off part thread and these were born.

 

[Jwin]

http://www.norcalbrewingsolutions.com/store/Krausen-Catcher-4-Nipples.html

http://www.norcalbrewingsolutions.com/store/Krausen-Catcher-2-Nipples-Grommet.html

There are thread with diy version, but I had Jay make those for me because the diy versions were clunky and I was having trouble improving on the design. Then he started the one off part thread and these were born.

Should have replaced "grommet" in the name with bunghole
Way funnier

 

[TomVA]

The rate of the oxidation reaction doubles (or halves) for every 10°C (18°F) change in temperature. So at 35°F in cold crashing, the rate of oxidation is 1/4 that of the room temperature exposure the beer sees when cooling, filling the fermenter, the 6-12 hours before active fermentation, and at bottling. The oxidation rate at cold crash is at 1/1000th the rate at boiling temperatures, but during boiling the surface of the wort is mostly protected by a layer of steam. This is not so, however, during the cool down and handling process when the wort is falling from say 150°F to ambient.

Furthermore, 5 gallons of beer at fermenting temperature only shrinks 0.15% in cooling to cold crashing temperature, so only about (0.0025 gallons) or one ounce of air should get sucked in.

Me thinks folks worry too much about oxidation.

TomVA

 

[The_Bishop]

The flaw in your shrinkage argument is that gas solubility markedly increases at cold crashing temperatures, absorbing any CO2 in the headspace and pulling more oxygen-rich air into the fermenter. This in turn will be absorbed.

 

[awoitte]

I'm reviving this thread to ask for clarification on the attached image below. So it will sanitize any oxygen that gets sucked back, so there should be no bacteria carried, only the O2. Would three mason jars make a difference? So 3 different jars contained CO2, increasing the required suck back in order for oxygen to reach the fermentor?

 

[jjw5015]

I'm reviving this thread to ask for clarification on the attached image below. So it will sanitize any oxygen that gets sucked back, so there should be no bacteria carried, only the O2. Would three mason jars make a difference? So 3 different jars contained CO2, increasing the required suck back in order for oxygen to reach the fermentor?

Not sure, but the point isn't to sanitize the oxygen, it's to keep oxygen from coming back in at all.

 

[Bobby_M]

To clarify, those dual mason jars are not going to do jack to protect the beer from oxygen. We've determined that you need at least a 1/2 gallon for a short term cold crash and if you leave it cold for more than a couple days, it wants upwards of 2-3 gallons of CO2.

 

[awoitte]

To clarify, those dual mason jars are not going to do jack to protect the beer from oxygen. We've determined that you need at least a 1/2 gallon for a short term cold crash and if you leave it cold for more than a couple days, it wants upwards of 2-3 gallons of CO2.

What if instead of the 3 piece air lock at the end of the connection you run a ball lock gas connection into a sealed/sanitized keg, with a PRV attached to the out side of the keg.. Would that allow CO2 to fill the keg, and then work in the reverse direction when the cold crash began and the fermenter began sucking inward?

 

[Loud Brewing]

Best solution to preventing suck back other than hooking your regulator directly to your FV is to fill a 2 liter bottle with co2 and use a carbcap to hook it up to your FV.

 

[don_bran321]

This is so easy. When u you start cold crashing put a solid bung in the hole. Done.

 

[awoitte]

This is so easy. When u you start cold crashing put a solid bung in the hole. Done.

And then when you open it to transfer the vacuum immediately sucks in air, or if you have a metal fermenter you then risk imploding your vessel.

That's poor advice.

 

[Alex4mula]

To clarify, those dual mason jars are not going to do jack to protect the beer from oxygen. We've determined that you need at least a 1/2 gallon for a short term cold crash and if you leave it cold for more than a couple days, it wants upwards of 2-3 gallons of CO2.

I don’t get this. I hook up a balloon that is about the size of maybe 2 gallons. Going from 61F to 33F it deflates at most one third. This is on a 6.5g carboy with 5.2g of liquid.

 

[schematix]

This is so easy. When u you start cold crashing put a solid bung in the hole. Done.

Not even close. Terrible idea.

 

[jjw5015]

This is so easy. When u you start cold crashing put a solid bung in the hole. Done.

Please post a picture of your collapsed fermenter next time you do this.

 

[str1p3s]

I was having oxygen issues in everything and nothing was working so I decided to just stop cold crashing, at least in the FV.

I (closed) transfer to the keg when fermentation appears done or close then hook up a blow off to the gas out at fermentation temps for a few more days to make sure it's done and the yeast clean up. Then hook up co2 at 1 or 2 psi to account for the pressure change and chill it down to close to freezing in order to start force carbing. I also use the floating dip tubes in the keg so I don't have to worry about picking up sludge in the bottom.

I made my first NEIPA with this method knowing it's the most susceptible to oxidation and it turned out really well. Tastes great so far and it's a bright hazy yellow (as opposed to the oxidized brown/purplish).

 

[Bobby_M]

I don’t get this. I hook up a balloon that is about the size of maybe 2 gallons. Going from 61F to 33F it deflates at most one third. This is on a 6.5g carboy with 5.2g of liquid.

Right. I said in the short term it can require up to a 1/2 gallon depending on the vessel size and headspace. Leave that cold for 3-4 days and that balloon is going to be sucked completely flat. I fully deflated a 2.5 gallon bladder over 5 days.

 

[Bobby_M]

What if instead of the 3 piece air lock at the end of the connection you run a ball lock gas connection into a sealed/sanitized keg, with a PRV attached to the out side of the keg.. Would that allow CO2 to fill the keg, and then work in the reverse direction when the cold crash began and the fermenter began sucking inward?

In order for the CO2 inside a keg to be pulled back into the fermenter, air would have to be allowed to suck back into the keg. That air would eventually mix in with the CO2 and you will get oxygen into the beer.

 

[Alex4mula]

Right. I said in the short term it can require up to a 1/2 gallon depending on the vessel size and headspace. Leave that cold for 3-4 days and that balloon is going to be sucked completely flat. I fully deflated a 2.5 gallon bladder over 5 days.

Still, not seeing that happen. I leave my carboy 4-12 days and only use 1/4 to 1/2 ballon.

 

[daveoshomebrews]

I'm reviving this thread to ask for clarification on the attached image below. So it will sanitize any oxygen that gets sucked back, so there should be no bacteria carried, only the O2. Would three mason jars make a difference? So 3 different jars contained CO2, increasing the required suck back in order for oxygen to reach the fermentor?

For what it's worth, I use this system but with larger 64 oz mason jars vs the smaller standard size. So far works well, but I tend to cold crash 2 days in fermenter for most beers before transfer.

 

[Bobby_M]

Still, not seeing that happen. I leave my carboy 4-12 days and only use 1/4 to 1/2 ballon.

I guess the laws of physics cease to exist in your brewery, or mine. I suspect that you may have a gas leak between your balloon and hose. In my setup, the connections are verifiable gas tight since I've tested them under a few psi of pressure dunked in water. I'm not the only one to observe a full 1 gallon collapse when I was using 1 gallon bladders.