Coconut absorbing beer

[GirlsBrewItBetter]

I'm brewing an extract chocolate coconut porter for the first time and I've been reading up on the addition of shredded coconut in secondary and it's wonderful ability to absorb a lot of beer. I'm brewing 5g and I'm using 16oz of toasted, shredded coconut. Is there anything I can do to prevent so much beer from being absorbed? Should I soak it first? Should I strain it after it's done in secondary and I'm ready to keg? Should I just assume that I'm sacrificing some volume for flavor? Any help would be appreciated.

 

[bucketnative]

As it absorbs beer, it also gives up it's flavors... so no, it's all part of the process.

 

[GirlsBrewItBetter]

As it absorbs beer, it also gives up it's flavors... so no, it's all part of the process.

Thanks! That's what I figured, but I just thought I would ask.

 

[IslandLizard]

As it absorbs beer, it also gives up it's flavors... so no, it's all part of the process.

Yup, not much you can do about it.

Did you put it in loose or bag it?

On a side note, secondaries aren't really needed for all but a few beers, even when adding fruit, flavors, etc. They can all be added to a primary with far less chance of oxidation and infection due to the transfer. Sours and bulk aging for extended times (>2-3 months) are those few exceptions where a secondary is beneficial.

 

[GirlsBrewItBetter]

Yup, not much you can do about it.

Did you put it in loose or bag it?

On a side note, secondaries aren't really needed for all but a few beers, even when adding fruit, flavors, etc. They can all be added to a primary with far less chance of oxidation and infection due to the transfer. Sours and bulk aging for extended times (>2-3 months) are those few exceptions where a secondary is beneficial.

I know, but I like the clarity that I get when it's off the yeast. I haven't added the coconut yet, I'm waiting for the secondary, but that actually brings up another question. Should it be loose or in a bag? I'm racking it to a carboy, so I would have to rig something to use a bag. It's 16oz, so that's too much for the tubes. Any suggestions?

 

[IslandLizard]

I know, but I like the clarity that I get when it's off the yeast. I haven't added the coconut yet, I'm waiting for the secondary, but that actually brings up another question. Should it be loose or in a bag? I'm racking it to a carboy, so I would have to rig something to use a bag. It's 16oz, so that's too much for the tubes. Any suggestions?

Per your moniker, if you really want to BrewItBetter, skip the secondary. Don't take my word for it, do some searches. They don't solve anything that doesn't need fixed in the first place.
During the week on coconut all yeast and trub will sink. Then rack to your bottling bucket or keg from above the trub layer.

Just add the shredded and toasted coconut to the primary, either loose, or put in a roomy, well sanitized "grain" bag, the ones typically used for steeping grain. They're fairly open mesh so beer can flow in and out easily. The beer needs to permeate, extract the coconut flavor, and move out. Some periodic agitation is helpful with that. Such as a gentle swirling once or twice a day.
There are a few other methods, each with a specific advantage. Another one is weighting the bag and dunk on a string of (unflavored) floss. Do some searches for them.

Key is trying to avoid or limit getting air into the headspace, while preserving the CO2 that's in there as much as possible. If you have CO2 available use it to your advantage for flushing/purging.

 

[GirlsBrewItBetter]

Whoa there partner, I wasn't looking for an argument. You're probably a much more experienced brewer than myself and I absolutely respect your opinions on not doing secondary, something that I may experiment with some time soon, but we both know that "to secondary or not to secondary" is a hot button debate to which people may never agree upon.
With that being said, thank you for your help. Adding flavoring ingredients are new to me and there seems to be a few different options. I think I may try your grain bag method with the dental floss. Would you secure the dental floss with the bung at the top?

 

[Dgallo]

Whoa there partner, I wasn't looking for an argument. You're probably a much more experienced brewer than myself and I absolutely respect your opinions on not doing secondary, something that I may experiment with some time soon, but we both know that "to secondary or not to secondary" is a hot button debate to which people may never agree upon.
With that being said, thank you for your help. Adding flavoring ingredients are new to me and there seems to be a few different options. I think I may try your grain bag method with the dental floss. Would you secure the dental floss with the bung at the top?

Sorry but there is no debate on to secondary a beer or not to do it.... it’s clear, never use a secondary unless you’re purposely trying add o2 for future oxidaztion, very few styles benefit from oxidation in the aging process.

Secondary use was a process created by homebrew kit companies as a way to increase sales. They suggest using one so that you have two fermenters and therefore can free up the first fermenter quicker and are more likely to but another kit sooner. It was a genius sales strategy so touché to them.

Loose toasted unsweetened coconut is my preferred method because I have the ability to cold crash in a closed FV hooked up to a co2 line. If your not planning crash before packing than a loose packed grain bag like @IslandLizard suggestion will serve you well.

 

[AkTom]

I make a coconut ipa. Typically I use a carboy to ferment in. However, with this ipa, I ferment in a bucket. If you add the coconut 2-3 days of pitching. I bag my coconut and put some stainless butter knives as weights. Always turns out great.
Cheers

 

[S-Met]

With that being said, thank you for your help. Adding flavoring ingredients are new to me and there seems to be a few different options. I think I may try your grain bag method with the dental floss. Would you secure the dental floss with the bung at the top?

Tie a mooring hitch in the top around the neck of your carboy. The weight of the sack will keep it locked down. The slip on the back will make it easy to remove.

 

[IslandLizard]

I bag my coconut and put some stainless butter knives as weights. Always turns out great.

That's a new one!

I use a good handful of glass marbles. Or a spare stainless fitting. Squeeze the air out of the bag while snaking it through the opening to prevent adding a lot of air.

Would you secure the dental floss with the bung at the top?

I'd tie it around a plastic object or a chopstick or so. It gives you a handle to hold onto and prevents the end from inadvertently slipping inside.

You only need to loosen the bung just enough to free the string so it can move. Helps preserving the CO2 in the headspace.

Needless to say, sanitize that area before operating the dunk. Use a spray bottle with Starsan or a small (dedicated) washcloth soaked in Starsan. Dunking once or twice a day should do it, but you could do it more often.

 

[GirlsBrewItBetter]

Thanks for the advice! So if you don't add the coconut into secondary, and you keep it in primary longer, does the fact that I'm using a plastic fermentation bucket make a difference? That is my biggest hang up with leaving beer in primary. If I leave it in there long enough for things to settle, will the plastic container leak O2 in? How long can I leave it in the primary bucket before it becomes a problem? We don't have the funds to upgrade to stainless yet, which is my goal, but I have to make due with what I have. Would I just add the coconut after fermentation has slowed down?

 

[Dgallo]

Thanks for the advice! So if you don't add the coconut into secondary, and you keep it in primary longer, does the fact that I'm using a plastic fermentation bucket make a difference? That is my biggest hang up with leaving beer in primary. If I leave it in there long enough for things to settle, will the plastic container leak O2 in? How long can I leave it in the primary bucket before it becomes a problem? We don't have the funds to upgrade to stainless yet, which is my goal, but I have to make due with what I have. Would I just add the coconut after fermentation has slowed down?

If you’re pitching the correct amount of yeast you should be finished fermenting and hit fg in 3-5 days. If you put the coconut in on day 5/6 and keep it in primary for 14-20 you’ll be fine with extraction. Just make sure your putting 5.5-6gallons of wort in the fermenter to minimize head space and account for the loss from trub and coconut. As long as your not moving that bucket around or the room does not fluctuate in temperature, you should not have oxidation issues.

 

[IslandLizard]

Thanks for the advice! So if you don't add the coconut into secondary, and you keep it in primary longer, does the fact that I'm using a plastic fermentation bucket make a difference? That is my biggest hang up with leaving beer in primary. If I leave it in there long enough for things to settle, will the plastic container leak O2 in? How long can I leave it in the primary bucket before it becomes a problem? We don't have the funds to upgrade to stainless yet, which is my goal, but I have to make due with what I have. Would I just add the coconut after fermentation has slowed down?

You mentioned "bung" before, to lead the floss along, that would have pointed to using a carboy or so, plastic or glass, not a bucket.

A plastic bucket with a well fitting, well sealing, snapped on lid should not leak or significantly over a week (or 2).

Headspace in buckets can be fairly large.
Once you remove the entire lid to add your (bag with) coconut, you've got a wide open space. The CO2 in the headspace is pretty much gone by the time you close it. That's not the best way.

Instead, crack the lid on one side, just enough to slip the bag inside and re-close immediately to limit air ingress. You'd only need to slightly crack the lid to release the floss enough to periodically dunk it, once a day.
If you add the coconut toward the end of active fermentation, but still somewhat ongoing, it will create more CO2 to "replace" most that was lost. All good.

Another route is to add the coconut, loose, through the airlock hole, without lifting or cracking the lid, which can be a bit tricky. Then just swirl gently once or twice a day.

IF you are well versed with racking to a smaller secondary (carboy?) without oxidizing, it remains an option. O2 exposure will probably be comparable to cracking the lid skillfully when all active fermentation has ceased.

 

[GirlsBrewItBetter]

The carboy is what we've used for secondary, which is why I asked about it the first time. But our primary is a bucket, and if I try leaving it in primary longer and completely omit the carboy then I have the bucket issues to contend with. My initial issues with leaving it in the primary fermenter has always been the plastic, but as it was stated earlier by another poster, that doesn't seem to be an issue for a couple of weeks so I'm willing to try it. I think I'll be able to use your suggestion is cracking the lid to slide the coconut in. I have a good grain bag, unflavored floss, and plenty of starsan so I'm hoping I can manage it. Thanks for that!

 

[S-Met]

our primary is a bucket

I assume as would most here, that your bucket is food-grade? All bets are off if you are using a standard bucket without food-safe designation.

 

[GirlsBrewItBetter]

Yes, definitely food grade!

 

[IslandLizard]

Yes, definitely food grade!

If it's the bucket in your avatar, it sure is food grade! Many of us use that kind. The lids with the 30-some 1" square "dimples" all along the edge, seal tightly on those. Once shut, there's not much coming in or going out. I can put 12 psi CO2 pressure on them, they bulge, no leaks.

Boil that grain bag in some oxyclean, washing soda (not baking soda), or PBW for 5 minutes in a smallish pot, keeping it submerged during that time to kill anything hiding in there. Rinse out well, sanitize, add toasted coconut + some weight to keep it submerged. I always keep a small bucket with Starsan around for those jobs. A Starsan solution will last for weeks, months even, when kept clean.

 

[day_trippr]

Is there a consensus wrt the amount of toasted/shredded coconut for a five gallon batch of porter or stout to really put the coconut up front? I'll be doing my stout in a couple of weeks and would love to split it and do one five gallon half with coconut...

Cheers!

 

[GirlsBrewItBetter]

If it's the bucket in your avatar, it sure is food grade! Many of us use that kind. The lids with the 30-some 1" square "dimples" all along the edge, seal tightly on those. Once shut, there's not much coming in or going out. I can put 12 psi CO2 pressure on them, they bulge, no leaks.

Boil that grain bag in some oxyclean, washing soda (not baking soda), or PBW for 5 minutes in a smallish pot, keeping it submerged during that time to kill anything hiding in there. Rinse out well, sanitize, add toasted coconut + some weight to keep it submerged. I always keep a small bucket with Starsan around for those jobs. A Starsan solution will last for weeks, months even, when kept clean.

Thanks! Will do

 

[applescrap]

Welcome to hbt btw!

 

[GirlsBrewItBetter]

Is there a consensus wrt the amount of toasted/shredded coconut for a five gallon batch of porter or stout to really put the coconut up front? I'll be doing my stout in a couple of weeks and would love to split it and do one five gallon half with coconut...

Cheers!

I haven't done anything with coconut yet, this will be my first time. But I'm putting 16oz in a 5g batch, so we'll see if we can really taste it. I'm sure plenty of others have tried and would have more info.

Welcome to hbt btw!

Thanks!

 

[Dgallo]

Is there a consensus wrt the amount of toasted/shredded coconut for a five gallon batch of porter or stout to really put the coconut up front? I'll be doing my stout in a couple of weeks and would love to split it and do one five gallon half with coconut...

Cheers!

Depends on how much coconut flavor you want and how sweet you’re beer is. Just like in all fruited beers, a touch of sweetness really helps the flavor come through. For a porter 3-4oz per gallon should be appropriate. A stout where you need it to compete with a roaster character up it to about 5-6. Again these are numbers for a middle of the road flavor so it depends on how much you want. I actually think I’m going to try to dryhop my next coconut stout with some sabro and coax that beautiful coconut flavor out of those hops

 

[Steveruch]

I'm currently drinking a coconut wheat beer that I brewed recently. I used 8 ozs. of fresh coconut in a 2.5 gallon batch. I'm really happy with the balance of coconut to wheat flavor.

 

[triethylborane]

Is there a consensus wrt the amount of toasted/shredded coconut for a five gallon batch of porter or stout to really put the coconut up front? I'll be doing my stout in a couple of weeks and would love to split it and do one five gallon half with coconut...

Cheers!

For something like Death by Coconut, a pound of toasted shredded coconut will do the trick. That specific beer has cholaca added to produce a mounds candy bar flavor. TBH I think the coconut in the aforementioned is a bit overwhelming, figures given the name.

Kona had Coco Loco which became Koko Brown and a similar coconut beer is produced by Maui Brewing Co, both have distinct coconut flavor without destroying your tastebuds . . someone had a thread years ago on their attempts to replicate . . . including coconut in the mash.

edit heres the thread fwiw

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/kona-brewing-koko-brown-ale.235196/

 

[RPh_Guy]

I know it sounds crazy but I was wondering if anyone had ever used fresh coconut.

It would not absorb the beer (decrease the accessible volume) and it seems likely to have better flavor.

@Steveruch How did you process it?

 

[Steveruch]

I know it sounds crazy but I was wondering if anyone had ever used fresh coconut.

It would not absorb the beer (decrease the accessible volume) and it seems likely to have better flavor.

@Steveruch How did you process it?

I cracked open the coconut and removed the shell, then cut it into chunks and added it to the wort on day seven. The only down side is the head disappears pretty quickly.