Cocoa nibs vs cocoa powder

[guldalian]

Trying my hand at a chocolate stout. Just wondering what people's thoughts are on this matter. Going for a chocolate flavor more on the subtle side of things, but not too subtle.

 

[solbes]

I used the powder once in a chocolate porter. Added 6 oz of unsweetened cocoa powder at flameout. I have to say it was the worst tasting beer I have made post primary. Just a very strange off flavor that did not go well at all with the beer. At the suggestion of someone here on HBT, I let the keg sit in the basement for 8 weeks before trying it again. It was actually pretty good at that point and had loads of chocolate flavor. I was really blown away by the change. Not quite how you'd picture a perfect chocolate flavor, but not that far off either. So if you go that route, probably use 4-6 oz and plan on aging it for quite awhile.

I have not tried the nibs, but definitely will do so when I make another chocolate porter or stout. I would think if you wanted to consume earlier, this would be the route to go. Have not heard from others that it creates weird flavors.

 

[Zepth]

I have a (hopless for science) chocolate stout in the keezer right now. Used a full 250g can of cocoa after having some success with 100g in a previous batch. Big chocolate nose and finish in this one, nice subtlety in the first. It also kills head retention like nobody's business. I can't get it even with a perfectly vertical glass held 2 feet below the tap. Even with the oats it still has zero head retention capabilities.

Side note is that much of the bitterness to achieve balance was through copious use of dark malts. Turns out I need to water chemistry a bit next time around there is a bit of acidity that is less than ideal. The things I do for science...

 

[fermentology]

I've used both before. I wasn't pleased with the flavor profile from the nibs, but they do produce chocolate aroma. I really liked the cocoa powder that I used however. It gave a nice bitter dark chocolate flavor. I used it in the mash and at the end of the boil. If you choose to use cocoa powder make sure cocoa is the only ingredient. Dutch processed cocoa powder adds alkalinity to the powder. I also would recommend adding something like Crystal malt or Wheat for some added head retention to combat the fats in the cocoa powder.

 

[rocketsan]

Whenever I use cocoa powder I go ape sh!t on vanilla to make the cocoa pop...

 

[Calder]

I've only used cocoa powder, and only used it in secondary. Have had great results.

Done it a few times, and still trying to figure out how best to add it. Problem is; if you just add it, it will clump, and some may never get wet. You need to make it into a slurry before adding.

I think last time I 'dissolved' it in some previously boiled hot water with a few ozs of sugar added to it. The sugar was to get some fermentation going to get the cocoa circulated, hope the fermentation scavenged any O2 I may have added, and ensure there was a CO2 layer on the beer.

The beer turned out great - I have one in the fridge ready for my next beer tonight.

 

[Jonkl]

I've used both, to varying degrees of success. You get more traditional "chocolate" flavor from cocoa powder, while the cacao nibs can bring some chocolate nose and a more complex flavor (one catch is that there's a fair amount of bitterness, which tends to compound if you use a ton of roasted malts, so cut those back accordingly).

I used 1 oz of cocoa powder in a 1 gallon batch - made a slurry with some water and poured it in with about 5 minutes left in the boil.

For the nibs, I soaked 2 oz (again, for a gallon batch) in some vodka to pull out the alcohol soluble flavors, then tossed the whole mess into secondary. It was kind of a pain to rack out, what with all the nibs getting sucked into the tubing and stuck, but it worked.

In those amounts, it didn't kill my head retention, but it was a little lower than normal.

To sum up: Cocoa powder in the boil works well to get chocolate flavor, but can be kind of one-note. Cacao nibs are much more complex and flavorful, but they don't play nicely with some other flavors. Plan accordingly.

 

[guldalian]

I've used both, to varying degrees of success. You get more traditional "chocolate" flavor from cocoa powder, while the cacao nibs can bring some chocolate nose and a more complex flavor (one catch is that there's a fair amount of bitterness, which tends to compound if you use a ton of roasted malts, so cut those back accordingly).

I used 1 oz of cocoa powder in a 1 gallon batch - made a slurry with some water and poured it in with about 5 minutes left in the boil.

For the nibs, I soaked 2 oz (again, for a gallon batch) in some vodka to pull out the alcohol soluble flavors, then tossed the whole mess into secondary. It was kind of a pain to rack out, what with all the nibs getting sucked into the tubing and stuck, but it worked.

In those amounts, it didn't kill my head retention, but it was a little lower than normal.

To sum up: Cocoa powder in the boil works well to get chocolate flavor, but can be kind of one-note. Cacao nibs are much more complex and flavorful, but they don't play nicely with some other flavors. Plan accordingly.

So with the cocoa powder, at 1oz per gal, how powerful was the chocolate flavor?

 

[jahdub]

After reading the KBS clone recipes and building a recipe off of that, I started using unsweetened bakers chocolate at flameout. Recently did a porter with 4oz bakers chocolate and the chocolate flavor really pops. I'd probably dial it back to 3oz for a future brew.

I've used nibs and cocoa powder, as well. Nibs were ok, but the contribution from baker's chocolate is better. Powder has a lot of flavor, but it is pretty nasty. If you look hard enough, you can still find specks of cocoa powder in the final product, after aging for more than half a year.

 

[olotti]

I'M redoing a stout with cocoa powder at 5 min left in boil then adding Nibs soaked in vodka into primary once active fermentation has stopped. Well c how this compares to using bakers choc bar pieces which is what I used the first time around with this recipe.

 

[Zepth]

After reading the KBS clone recipes and building a recipe off of that, I started using unsweetened bakers chocolate at flameout. Recently did a porter with 4oz bakers chocolate and the chocolate flavor really pops. I'd probably dial it back to 3oz for a future brew.

I've used nibs and cocoa powder, as well. Nibs were ok, but the contribution from baker's chocolate is better. Powder has a lot of flavor, but it is pretty nasty. If you look hard enough, you can still find specks of cocoa powder in the final product, after aging for more than half a year.

So you're telling me that my beer lines are a write off? Oh well. I'll reserve that line for beers with a less delicate profile.

Could you give a couple details as to exactly what you did with the bakers? Just toss it in and the wort melted it, nuked it first, double boiler pot?

 

[olotti]

I used 4oz of bakers bars measured out in a scale and dumped it in the last 10 min of the boil. I got decent choc flavor but it killed head retention so I decided to try the Powder In the boil and I added flaked barley and added .5lbs of lactose to add body to this batch. IM just giving my findings from my attempt with the choc bars in regards to the above post. His may be different and I'm also curious.

 

[jahdub]

So you're telling me that my beer lines are a write off? Oh well. I'll reserve that line for beers with a less delicate profile.

Could you give a couple details as to exactly what you did with the bakers? Just toss it in and the wort melted it, nuked it first, double boiler pot?

Hopefully your results will be better than mine were. I imagine that even if there is particulate, you'd be able to rinse it out. edit: Sorry if my post was confusing, I meant that I'm finding particulate after the beer has conditioned for a long time, you'd think it would have settled out by now. I didn't keg the brew with cocoa powder.

As far as the bakers chocolate, I just broke it up into small pieces, so it could dissolve more quickly. Gave a good whirlpool and dropped about an ounce in at a time, right before flameout. There was a tiny bit of residue in the bottom of the kettle, but it was less than I expected it to be.

I have not noticed poor head retention.

 

[Jonkl]

So with the cocoa powder, at 1oz per gal, how powerful was the chocolate flavor?

I'd say it was obvious, but not overpowering. I might cut it back a little if I were doing a "stout with chocolate," but it worked for a "chocolate stout," if that distinction makes sense.