Cocoa Nibs in Secondary. The proper way to do it?

[Zrab11]

Ok. I am a few weeks away from doing 2 different chocolate beers. I have done a lot of research on the web and like most things there is no "right way" to do it. But I feel like with most topics on brewing I can find a 60-40 concensus and I usually go with the method used 60% of the time and I am happy with it. But the Cocoa nibs debate I feel is all over the place. Some say you can do it this way and then 2 posts later someone says NEVER do that. So I am looking for people that have done this before and which way they did it and if it was successful or not.
*disclaimer I DO NOT KEG. and am only asking advice on putting these into the Secondary(or primary if not transferring to a secondary.)

I am looking to get some Good chocolate Aroma and maybe some chocolate flavor as well by adding these to the secondary. so Here are my questions.

Some say you need to soak it in vodka to sanitize it.
Some say you need to soak it in Vodka to help extract the flavors.

1. Has anyone got good chocolate flavor/aroma from just throwing the Cocoa Nibs in the secondary WITHOUT any soak.?

2.(This is prob what I will do) So you have 4oz of Cocoa Nibs. Soak it in a small sealed container with 2oz(or just enough to cover all the nibs) of vodka.
- How long? The 2 most popular answers are 24-48 hrs. or 2 weeks
-So How long do these need to soak.?

3.Now once the Cocoa Nibs are soaked for a certain amount of time I have heard 3 theories.
-Pour Vodka AND Cocoa Nibs into the secondary.
-Stain the Vodka From the Cocoa Nibs and Add ONLY the NIBS
-Stain the Vodka From the Cocoa Nibs and Add ONLY the Vodka(or chocolate extract that it is now)
--So which way is it??

I learn more towards either Everything in Secondary or just the vodka as I would assume the vodka would extract the flavor from the nibs and if u just did the nibs you wouldn't get much flavor.

Last Question
4.Once you have chosen your method. How long do you let the Nibs/Extract sit in the secondary before bottling?

_ last Little Tid bit. While researching I came across this link. Looks like something I might try http://www.maltosefalcons.com/tech/cacao-nib-extract-drew-way

I am hoping this thread clears up some of the many opinions out there today or at least makes me feel more confident when I do mine. I know some might say "why don't you try all of the different methods you suggested and let us know what you find out." But I am hoping I can get some knowledge from this great community and hopefully some people already used Nibs successfully.

 

[m00ps]

I cover them in a bit of water, boil for a min, and toss the whole mixture into the primary. It works great with extracting the flavor, doesnt take as long as vokda soaking, and makes the kitchen smell amazing

I leave them in as long as a dry hop, usually maybe 5 days before bottling

 

[michigander033]

"-Stain the Vodka From the Cocoa Nibs and Add ONLY the NIBS"
Got this advise from a commercial brewer a few years ago - Soak them for 30 seconds or so and then separate and keep the vodka. Put the NIBS in for 3-4 days before kegging/bottling.

"- How long? The 2 most popular answers are 24-48 hrs. or 2 weeks "
I'm not sure I see the point to letting them soak any longer. Why would you need the vodka to extract the flavor? There is alcohol already in the secondary that will do that for you. And isn't that the reason you are using them? to get the flavor? Let the beer do it.

 

[phyllobeddo]

They need to be toasted already, right? I bought some raw ones, and read somewhere that indicated I should have bought toasted ones instead. I also read that I can toast the raw ones for a few minutes before I put them in the primary or secondary. I'm looking at using them on my next batch, the LH Milk Stout clone recipe on this forum. I would prefer to use them in the primary and not secondary.

 

[m00ps]

They need to be toasted already, right? I bought some raw ones, and read somewhere that indicated I should have bought toasted ones instead. I also read that I can toast the raw ones for a few minutes before I put them in the primary or secondary. I'm looking at using them on my next batch, the LH Milk Stout clone recipe on this forum. I would prefer to use them in the primary and not secondary.

I've only used raw and worked just fine. Much better, deeper chocolate aroma and flavor than cocoa baking powder. Never thought to toast them...

 

[phyllobeddo]

I've only used raw and worked just fine. Much better, deeper chocolate aroma and flavor than cocoa baking powder. Never thought to toast them...

I'm pretty sure this is the article I was reading a while back. There's a recipe in there as well. Anyway, I hope to brew a batch this weekend and I need to get started on some more research concerning the nibs. Seems that I will need to roast them and then soak them in vodka.

http://barleypopmaker.info/2009/12/15/chocolatizing-your-beer/

 

[Zrab11]

Appreciate the people that gave some answers to my questions.. Would still like to hear some more answers as to get a better idea of what to do.

Thanks

 

[Sleepyemt]

So I've used them 2 different ways

1) used 4 oz during a 60 min boil, got a dark chocolate flavor from them. ( this was in a imperial stout, so very cohesive flavors ). This was a clone recipe shared by Stone for their bitter chocolate oatmeal stout. So I followed their recommended route.

2) I bought raw nibs, toasted at 300* for 10 min. Currently in secondary, strong chocolate flavor and aroma. I racked on to them straight out of the oven. This method is used to make chocolate from nibs (the toasting) also brings out the oils, as of right now I can't comment on head retention. But the best flavor so far....

Adding a vanilla bean will assist with the flavor as well

 

[Rehlgood]

I add about 4oz straight to the secondary with no sanitizing. Let it sit 7 days. My only issue is I think this adds a bit of astringency to the beer.

 

[Zrab11]

2) I bought raw nibs, toasted at 300* for 10 min. Currently in secondary, strong chocolate flavor and aroma. I racked on to them straight out of the oven. This method is used to make chocolate from nibs (the toasting) also brings out the oils, as of right now I can't comment on head retention. But the best flavor so far....

So I am assuming when you say toasting them brings out the oils. There is actual oil on the pan you toast them on? Is this correct?

If so do you add the oils and the cocoa nibs to the secondary or just the nibs.?

 

[DemonsRun]

I have use this method -strain out the Nibs and add the vodka, (creates a strong flavor)
http://www.maltosefalcons.com/tech/cacao-nib-extract-drew-way
however cheap vodka will add aroma that may not be welcome.

I think all the methods will give results, some with stronger flavors some with more astringency. You just need to experiment and see what flavors work best for you.

Next Stout I make I might just put whole Coffee beans\Nibs\Vanilla Bean in a sack together and add a week before kegging.

 

[m00ps]

I have use this method -strain out the Nibs and add the vodka, (creates a strong flavor)
http://www.maltosefalcons.com/tech/cacao-nib-extract-drew-way
however cheap vodka will add aroma that may not be welcome.

I think all the methods will give results, some with stronger flavors some with more astringency. You just need to experiment and see what flavors work best for you.

Next Stout I make I might just put whole Coffee beans\Nibs\Vanilla Bean in a sack together and add a week before kegging.

That will be the single best thing you could do to improve those coffee, chocolate and vanilla flavors in your stout. I'll boil the nibs or vanilla in a tiny amount of water for a min or two if the container isn;t sealed though. Coffee I always use fresh from a vacuum pouch

 

[Sleepyemt]

So I am assuming when you say toasting them brings out the oils. There is actual oil on the pan you toast them on? Is this correct?

If so do you add the oils and the cocoa nibs to the secondary or just the nibs.?

It more like it makes them sweat... I used the roasting guidelines she uses here
http://ultimatechocolateblog.blogspot.com/2013/04/using-cacao-nibs-to-make-chocolate-at.html

 

[Earendil]

OP you nailed my experience on the subject to a T. Since I'm only working on my very first beer right now, I was hoping clarity would come with time.

The first thing I wish all commentors would do is:
State their current relationship with chocolate outside of brewing (dark, milk, bitter, sweet).
State their favorite chocolate stout.

For me, that would be a lot of dark bitter chocolate that I will eat absolutely straight.
My two favorite chocolate stouts are Rogue's Double Chocolate Stout and Southern Tier's Choklat.

For my first brew I'm taking a two stage approach since I have low expectations for actually producing 5 gallons of good beer

The processes I'm going with is:
4oz nibs in 4oz Vodka for 5 days, and then all of it tossed in 2 weeks before bottling.

I checked the gravity yesterday (one week with nibs, one week to go) and got a little taste. I detected very little chocolate if any. Because of this I'm currently soaking another 4 oz of nibs in Vodka that will go in right before bottling, and will be added to only HALF the 5 gallon batch. If my math serves me I'll have 2.5 gallons with 4oz of nibs, and 2.5 gallons with the equivalent of 12oz of nibs. The variable I can't measure is how much having the original 4oz of nibs fermenting for 2 weeks will actually effect things.

I'll report back in a couple weeks with a comparison of how they turned out.

 

[m00ps]

OP you nailed my experience on the subject to a T. Since I'm only working on my very first beer right now, I was hoping clarity would come with time.

The first thing I wish all commentors would do is:
State their current relationship with chocolate outside of brewing (dark, milk, bitter, sweet).
State their favorite chocolate stout.

For me, that would be a lot of dark bitter chocolate that I will eat absolutely straight.
My two favorite chocolate stouts are Rogue's Double Chocolate Stout and Southern Tier's Choklat.

For my first brew I'm taking a two stage approach since I have low expectations for actually producing 5 gallons of good beer

The processes I'm going with is:
4oz nibs in 4oz Vodka for 5 days, and then all of it tossed in 2 weeks before bottling.

I checked the gravity yesterday (one week with nibs, one week to go) and got a little taste. I detected very little chocolate if any. Because of this I'm currently soaking another 4 oz of nibs in Vodka that will go in right before bottling, and will be added to only HALF the 5 gallon batch. If my math serves me I'll have 2.5 gallons with 4oz of nibs, and 2.5 gallons with the equivalent of 12oz of nibs. The variable I can't measure is how much having the original 4oz of nibs fermenting for 2 weeks will actually effect things.

I'll report back in a couple weeks with a comparison of how they turned out.

All of southern tiers imperial stouts are up there for me. I've got a choklat and creme brulee aging in my closet. I like dark chocolate, but usually anything past 80% is a bit too much for me.

Try boiling the nibs in water for a min then add the whole thing once it cools. I'm telling you it works. 4 oz of nibs in just 2.5gal is 50% more than I would use with this method and I've never had an issue with the chocolate not coming through. I've made stuff like a malted milk ball stout that had that liquified tootsie roll thing going on like ST's Choklat. I also add some vanilla beans to help round out the flavor and bring it to the front. It can also help to add cocoa powder late in the boil as well as the nibs

 

[eadavis80]

I soaked mine in VANILLA vodka for a chocolate stout and had good results. I did NOT soak them in vanilla vodka for a vanilla porter as Adventures in Home Brewing warned against it. I soaked them for 2-4 days in just enough vodka to cover them in a tuperware container. I then put all the contents in the secondary and let them sit for a week. Had good results.

 

[robotinc]

I've had great success roasting them in a baking sheet at 350 until they are fragrant, about 20 mins. I then add them to the carboy and rack beer on top of them. The roasting brings out the flavor, and kills any nasties on the nibs themselves. Soak time was about two weeks, but I would go by taste not time

 

[ittybittykittycommittee]

I have done a few chocolate stouts, and so far the one I like best has no cacao nibs or secondary addition at all. I used about 1 pound of chocolate malt in the mash, and when I tasted it at kegging it tasted like a dark chocolate. The cold and CO2 help cut that taste a bit (which is good in my opinion).

Anyway, now I'm not going to bother with cacao nibs in the future. Just my $0.02.

 

[joyceman]

I agree with the OP, opinions are all over the board on this subject and there doesnt seem to be any hard/fast/generally accepted rules. My recent experience is still carbing so no hard evidence from me for a couple of weeks.

I used raw nibs, roasted them for about 20-30 mins at 350 and soaked them in vodka for around 10 days. Based upon something I had read here, I froze the nibs/vodka in an attempt to separate the cocoa butter. I did not get any separation and dumped the whole thing into the fermenter (into a paint strainer bag with 5 lbs of cherries) for 2 weeks. I didnt get a strong choc flavor at bottling, but Im waiting for full carbonation before passing judgment.

 

[DemonsRun]

I love dark Chocolate 80% cacao or higher, But I also love coffee and vanilla so with this brew I was throwing it all in.
I used 6 oz of roasted NIBs (Brand - Scharffeb Berger), 3 Vanilla beans (split), and probably 6oz of Vodka.
After straining it, I also tried freezing the extract but could not get it to separate.

My RIS has only been fermenting 10 days so it has a while to go (12 Gallons).
Fermentation was strong until today, Internal temps have dropped to about 2 degrees above the room, so still some activity.
Currently the Chocolate flavor is very strong and I can smell the Vodka (Tito's why did I use such crap) on the sample (I hope it will mellow some with time). I'll dump the trub/yeast again at the end of the month, at the end of January I thought I'd add the Coffee whole bean for a week. Then transfer to Keg and let it age. If it tastes good I'll put 10 Liters in a barrel to age even longer.

 

[Zrab11]

OP you nailed my experience on the subject to a T. Since I'm only working on my very first beer right now, I was hoping clarity would come with time.

The first thing I wish all commentors would do is:
State their current relationship with chocolate outside of brewing (dark, milk, bitter, sweet).
State their favorite chocolate stout.

For me, that would be a lot of dark bitter chocolate that I will eat absolutely straight.
My two favorite chocolate stouts are Rogue's Double Chocolate Stout and Southern Tier's Choklat.

For my first brew I'm taking a two stage approach since I have low expectations for actually producing 5 gallons of good beer

The processes I'm going with is:
4oz nibs in 4oz Vodka for 5 days, and then all of it tossed in 2 weeks before bottling.

I checked the gravity yesterday (one week with nibs, one week to go) and got a little taste. I detected very little chocolate if any. Because of this I'm currently soaking another 4 oz of nibs in Vodka that will go in right before bottling, and will be added to only HALF the 5 gallon batch. If my math serves me I'll have 2.5 gallons with 4oz of nibs, and 2.5 gallons with the equivalent of 12oz of nibs. The variable I can't measure is how much having the original 4oz of nibs fermenting for 2 weeks will actually effect things.

I'll report back in a couple weeks with a comparison of how they turned out.

Glad I'm not the only one experience this roller-coaster.

Have you had time to check your beer? Any findings on the process you did?
Hope you had a good christmas

 

[Earendil]

Glad I'm not the only one experience this roller-coaster.

Have you had time to check your beer? Any findings on the process you did?
Hope you had a good christmas

I tasted it on bottling day and was unimpressed. Not only was it a bit funky due to some first round noobie mistakes, but the chocolate was still not apparent. He cacao nibs were buried in the sludge at the bottom of the carboy, and I wonder if this affected the flavor uptake.

The cacao nibs I put in the second half of the batch (after bottling the first half) I put into a small mesh bag for easy removal. This I stirred for a minute prior to starting the bottling. A far more distinct chocolate smell was apparent.

This weekend will be two weeks in the bottles. I'm also cooking up my second batch this weekend and will crack open one of the bottles at that time. I should have a better idea how it turned out. Ping this thread again if I haven't posted an update by Monday

 

[MindenMan]

The idea of freezing the nibs/vodka mixture was to separate the cocoa butter from the extract. If yours didn't separate, then you don't have to worry about head retention issues. I used 8 oz cocoa powder in the last 10 minutes of the boil to compliment the chocolate malt. I roasted my cocoa nibs, and when right out of the oven, crushed them into 2 or so ounces of vodka, then I added all of it to the secondary, and let it rest for two weeks. On bottling day, I added a little pure vanilla-maybe 1 ounce, and there was no question this was a chocolate stout.

 

[Earendil]

The idea of freezing the nibs/vodka mixture was to separate the cocoa butter from the extract. If yours didn't separate, then you don't have to worry about head retention issues. I used 8 oz cocoa powder in the last 10 minutes of the boil to compliment the chocolate malt. I roasted my cocoa nibs, and when right out of the oven, crushed them into 2 or so ounces of vodka, then I added all of it to the secondary, and let it rest for two weeks. On bottling day, I added a little pure vanilla-maybe 1 ounce, and there was no question this was a chocolate stout.

I see you added 8oz of cocoa powder, but what was the quantity of cacao nibs? And did you throw them into secondary loose or in a bag?

 

[MindenMan]

I used 4 oz of cocoa nibs, and threw them loose into my secondary.
For a week or so. The cocoa powder was added at 15minuters left

 

[sww35]

Any update on how things have turned out?

 

[Earendil]

Any update on how things have turned out?

I had an issue with mine (4oz Cocoa nibs + 2 vanilla bean) and it'll be green for a long time to come. I have another batch, an oatmeal stout, that I've just added 8 oz cacao nibs and 3 vanilla beans too. I'll have some sort of results in another 4-6 weeks.

I'll be brewing another one this weekend probably. I'm going full cacao powder on it so that I can compare and contrast with the nibs. It's the same oatmeal stout recipe as the nibs, so should be a good comparison.

 

[olotti]

The idea of freezing the nibs/vodka mixture was to separate the cocoa butter from the extract. If yours didn't separate, then you don't have to worry about head retention issues. I used 8 oz cocoa powder in the last 10 minutes of the boil to compliment the chocolate malt. I roasted my cocoa nibs, and when right out of the oven, crushed them into 2 or so ounces of vodka, then I added all of it to the secondary, and let it rest for two weeks. On bottling day, I added a little pure vanilla-maybe 1 ounce, and there was no question this was a chocolate stout.

At what temp and how long did u roast the nibs.

 

[joyceman]

Mine has some choc flavor, but its very background and overridden by the cherry. I like it, but if I was looking for a heavy choc flavor I would go with more than 5oz.

 

[bassballboy]

I've brewed with nibs probably 8 times or so now, and cocoa powder about 3 times.

In my experience, I've gotten great results from the following assuming you want a strong dark chocolate presence:

2 ounces of nibs, toasted at 265* for 12 minutes (watch this to make sure you don't burn them), grind them in a coffee grinder, put in at flameout.

Then do the same method above a few days before you transfer to your secondary, but put the ground nibs into a container with your alcohol of choice (I use bourbon), just enough to wet it, add more if it dried out fast. Add to secondary with the beer.

 

[fun4stuff]

I had an issue with mine (4oz Cocoa nibs + 2 vanilla bean) and it'll be green for a long time to come. I have another batch, an oatmeal stout, that I've just added 8 oz cacao nibs and 3 vanilla beans too. I'll have some sort of results in another 4-6 weeks.

I'll be brewing another one this weekend probably. I'm going full cacao powder on it so that I can compare and contrast with the nibs. It's the same oatmeal stout recipe as the nibs, so should be a good comparison.

So, how did they turn out?

 

[Earendil]

So, how did they turn out?

Terrible. Both batches infected. It was only my 3rd and 4th batch I think. I'm a fair bit more adapt now and hopefully in another 2 months my next chocolate stouts will be ready for tasting. Feel free to ping this thread again in May and see how they are

 

[fun4stuff]

Terrible. Both batches infected. It was only my 3rd and 4th batch I think. I'm a fair bit more adapt now and hopefully in another 2 months my next chocolate stouts will be ready for tasting. Feel free to ping this thread again in May and see how they are

Damn,that sucks. Do you think the nibs caused the infection?

I have a 6 gallon batch that I added 8 oz unsweetened cocoa powder at last 10 mins boil and then 8 oz nibs (soaked in vodka for a couple days) at day 8 for 2 weeks. Will be keg'ing tomorrow or Sunday day. Was having second thoughts on the amounts- hopefully didn't overdue it. WaS some chocolate flavor when tasted at day 8 but wanted more.

 

[fun4stuff]

Damn,that sucks. Do you think the nibs caused the infection?

I have a 6 gallon batch that I added 8 oz unsweetened cocoa powder at last 10 mins boil and then 8 oz nibs (soaked in vodka for a couple days) at day 8 for 2 weeks. Will be keg'ing tomorrow or Sunday day. Was having second thoughts on the amounts- hopefully didn't overdue it. WaS some chocolate flavor when tasted at day 8 but wanted more.

Keg'd it today. Definitely more chocolate flavor. Just slightly more bitter than i wanted- like the type of bitterness you would taste from unsweetened chocolate cocoa. Maybe this will get better as it ages... and crash cools in the keg.