CO2 Tank Inside or outside Kegerator/Freezer

[Bottoms_Up]

Regarding the placement of the CO2 tank (outside or inside the Kegerator/Freezer) I have the following questions:

1. In general, if you have the space, what are the advantages/disadvantages or storing your CO2 tank outside or inside the Kegerator/Freezer?

2. If you are storing the CO2 tank outside vs. inside the Kegerator/Freezer, do you need to adjust the pressure for proper flow? (i.e. the CO2 temperature will be different).

3. If you store the CO2 tank inside the Kegerator/Freezer, do you use up more CO2 overall than if you were storing it outside?

Thank you.

 

[sandyeggoxj]

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Regarding the placement of the CO2 tank (outside or inside the Kegerator/Freezer) I have the following questions:

1. In general, if you have the space, what are the advantages/disadvantages or storing your CO2 tank outside or inside the Kegerator/Freezer?

Outside = more space inside. Inside = no drilling holes to route co2 lines from outside.

2. If you are storing the CO2 tank outside vs. inside the Kegerator/Freezer, do you need to adjust the pressure for proper flow? (i.e. the CO2 temperature will be different).

Nope. 10psi is 10psi. You will need to adjust for your specific needs, but that is a case by case deal. For example, my system might like 10psi bt your system might like 13psi. Just depends.

3. If you store the CO2 tank inside the Kegerator/Freezer, do you use up more CO2 overall than if you were storing it outside?

You will use the same amount either way.

Thank you.

 

[hezagenius]

If you want a dual pressure regulator, it would be awfully hard to have it outside the kegerator unless you had a larger hole for 2 CO2 hoses.

 

[masonsjax]

I keep my co2 and nitro tanks outside. It's nice to be able to turn off/on the tanks and make pressure adjustments without opening the lid and letting moisture into the keezer.

 

[Stealthcruiser]

If you want a dual pressure regulator, it would be awfully hard to have it outside the kegerator unless you had a larger hole for 2 CO2 hoses.

Or 2 holes..........

 

[sandyeggoxj]

Or 2 holes..........

2-holes are better than one... anyone know that song?

 

[Bottoms_Up]

2. If you are storing the CO2 tank outside vs. inside the Kegerator/Freezer, do you need to adjust the pressure for proper flow? (i.e. the CO2 temperature will be different).

Nope. 10psi is 10psi. You will need to adjust for your specific needs, but that is a case by case deal. For example, my system might like 10psi bt your system might like 13psi. Just depends.

3. If you store the CO2 tank inside the Kegerator/Freezer, do you use up more CO2 overall than if you were storing it outside?

You will use the same amount either way..

Thank you for your response. I'm still confused. There are all sorts of tables showing how many volumes of CO2 one must use for certain types of beer, which vary according to the temperature of the beer. Thus the amount of CO2 that the beer dissolves depends directly on the temperature. So, if the CO2 is warmer (container is outside of the kegerator/freezer) as opposed to being inside the kegerator/freezer, that would change the temperature of the CO2, then, wouldn't that also directly affect how much CO2 is being drawn from the container to make up the volume absorbed in the beer?

 

[masonsjax]

No, the temp of the beer is what matters. Co2 doesn't change states at the temp differences we're dealing with.

 

[Bottoms_Up]

No, the temp of the beer is what matters. Co2 doesn't change states at the temp differences we're dealing with.

Thank you. That clears it up. I guess the other advantage to having the CO2 container inside the temperature controlled freezer (or kegerator, etc.) is that the cooler temperature of the CO2 won't warm up the poured beer as much.

 

[sandyeggoxj]

Thank you. That clears it up. I guess the other advantage to having the CO2 container inside the temperature controlled freezer (or kegerator, etc.) is that the cooler temperature of the CO2 won't warm up the poured beer as much.

When a gas comes from pressure to atmospheric pressure it gets cold. So that won't really affect the beer at all. The temperature of the co2 really has no effect on the beer.

 

[masonsjax]

Besides, poured beer has already had the co2 in solution for some time. Once fully carbed to equilibrium with your set pressure, the new co2 entering your keg is only there to keep that equilibrium, and to push the beer through the faucet. It's not really going into the beer anymore.

 

[Bottoms_Up]

Besides, poured beer has already had the co2 in solution for some time. Once fully carbed to equilibrium with your set pressure, the new co2 entering your keg is only there to keep that equilibrium, and to push the beer through the faucet. It's not really going into the beer anymore.

Yes, but not in my situation. I do not keep the CO2 connected all the time after the keg has reached it's optimum saturation level. I only connect it when I pour a beer. But as someone else mentioned, I guess the CO2 coming out of a container at room temperature will be cold because of the pressure difference.

That is why I asked the question in the first place. I have a 20-pound CO2 container which does not fit in my temperature controlled freezer. I also do not have holes drilled in my freezer (might sell it for a larger one in the near future), so I can only connect the CO2 whenever I open the freezer to pour a beer. I have recently purchased a 5-pound CO2 container, so I should have enough room to put it in the freezer along with the two kegs.

 

[masonsjax]

You could have a tank full of super heated air connected to your keg, it wont affect the temperature of the beer being poured. Trust me, you're worried about a non-issue.

 

[Bottoms_Up]

You could have a tank full of super heated air connected to your keg, it wont affect the temperature of the beer being poured. Trust me, you're worried about a non-issue.

Not worried - just trying to understand.

 

[masonsjax]

I keep my 20# co2 tank outside the keezer. I leave the valve turned off unless I'm pouring beer. Once the kegs are fully carbonated, opening the valve on the tank does nothing until you pour. Pouring a pint means the tank has to replace that missing pint with gas to maintain the same pressure. If you didn't open the tank valve, the pressure in the keg would drop a little and the co2 dissolved in the beer would eventually come out of solution to equalize with the pressure in the headspace. If you continued to serve without adding more pressure, the flow would slow to a trickle and eventually stop, and the beer would go flat. Keeping the pressure up keeps the carbonation at deaired levels, and keeps the pressure at a level that will push the beer through the faucet.

The temperature of the beer determines at what rate the gas is absorbed. The temperature of the gas is irrelevant at the range we're talking. The gas is only filling the headspace of the keg, and once the carbonation is at the calculated level, at equilibrium with the headspace in the keg, it's only real purpose is to push the beer out of the faucet. The gas then flows to refill the headspace as you serve, maintaining the equilibrium that keeps the desired carbonation level. The beer itself is pushed out through the diptube from the bottom of the keg, pushed by the gas pressure from the headspace at the top of the keg. A minor temperature differential in the gas flowing in as you pour would be pretty quickly eliminated by the temperature of the surrounding gas, and would definitely be a non issue to the cold beer being served from the bottom of the keg.

I hope I was clear in attempting to explain that. The point is that you can keep your 20# tank outside as warm as you like and turned off or disconnected without issue.

 

[Bottoms_Up]

I hope I was clear in attempting to explain that. The point is that you can keep your 20# tank outside as warm as you like and turned off or disconnected without issue.

Excellent explanation! This fully answers my initial questions, and helps me in my choices. It's basically what I have been doing (because of the size of the tank, I leave it outside the freezer and connect it only initially, when repeatedly carbonating it to reach the proper volume, and subsequently only when I'm pouring a beer).

Taking the connector on and off each time I pour a beer is a bit of a nuisance, so now, with my new, much smaller 5 pound tank, I can keep it connected inside the freezer and turn it on when I pour a beer.

Thank you for your help.

 

[Bottoms_Up]

Just a follow-up observation. After I put the 5 pound CO2 container in the temperature controlled freezer for a day, the temperature definitely affected the pressure in the container - quite significantly. Outside the freezer, I had the pressure set at about 9 psi quite consistently for over a couple of weeks, using it whenever I poured a beer. After putting it into the freezer, and allowing it to cool for a day, when connecting it to the keg, the pressure rose quite high - to about 20 psi. I had to bleed the CO2 from the keg and adjust the valve several times to get it back down to 9 psi.

Thus, cooling the temperature of the CO2 from room temperature to about 3 degrees C, caused a significant increase in pressure at the outlet.

 

[sandyeggoxj]

Just a follow-up observation. After I put the 5 pound CO2 container in the temperature controlled freezer for a day, the temperature definitely affected the pressure in the container - quite significantly. Outside the freezer, I had the pressure set at about 9 psi quite consistently for over a couple of weeks, using it whenever I poured a beer. After putting it into the freezer, and allowing it to cool for a day, when connecting it to the keg, the pressure rose quite high - to about 20 psi. I had to bleed the CO2 from the keg and adjust the valve several times to get it back down to 9 psi.

Thus, cooling the temperature of the CO2 from room temperature to about 3 degrees C, caused a significant increase in pressure at the outlet.

It is likely that is caused by the effect of cold on the diaphragm in the regulator. It is hardening in the cold and changing it's output.

 

[Bottoms_Up]

It is likely that is caused by the effect of cold on the diaphragm in the regulator. It is hardening in the cold and changing it's output.

Thank you! Interesting concept! I hadn't thought of that.

 

[sandyeggoxj]

You bet. I am just guessing on that, but if you take a regulator apart you will see what I am talking about.

 

[masonsjax]

Yep, that happens. I thought someone had mentioned that near the beginning of the thread. Once you adjust the regulator, everything should behave just as it did outside. It might take a few adjustments before the regulators are accustomed to the cooler surroundings.