Co2 issues with force carbonating

[Turbo26]

I'm having a helluva time getting my beers fully carbonated in the keg.. I'm getting a good head on the beers, but I'm missing the full body carbonation. Could someone walk me through the process of fully carbonating a kegged beer? I overcarbed at first with the lap rocking technique, and know where I went wrong there.. Could someone give me a fool-proof way to get a good full carbonation? I realize there are a lot of factors, but I usually do IPA's and my gas side has no leaks and my kegerator is at 38 degrees.. My beer lines are 8ft long.. But I feel I'm adjusting my regulator to get a good pour, but not getting full body carb.. Any ideas?

 

[doug293cz]

What pressure do you have your regulator set at, and how long has the beer been at that pressure? You do leave the CO2 on 24/7 don't you?

Brew on

 

[Bellybuster]

No more issues
carbonation-table

You also require a balanced kegging system to begin with. How long are your serving lines?

 

[Turbo26]

Hey guys.. Thanks for your time...
Doug: I overcarbed initially with the lap rocking technique.. So I bled it out.. I've had it at 38degrees in kegerator for over 6 days.. I have my regulator set at 8psi for that time. Yes, I leave CO2 on 24/7.. I realize 8psi might be a little low, but that's the sweet spot for the pour at the moment.

Belly: My serving lines are 8ft long (3/16).. Stainless steel shanks and Perlick 630 faucets..

I guess what I'm asking is for my next kegs.. What are some of your practices that you have good success with for carbonating properly? I am relatively new to the kegging world and very much appreciate the wisdom of you old timers.. Haha.. Thank you so much in advance.. Cheers!

 

[jmcquesten]

Hey guys.. Thanks for your time...
Doug: I overcarbed initially with the lap rocking technique.. So I bled it out.. I've had it at 38degrees in kegerator for over 6 days.. I have my regulator set at 8psi for that time. Yes, I leave CO2 on 24/7.. I realize 8psi might be a little low, but that's the sweet spot for the pour at the moment.

Belly: My serving lines are 8ft long (3/16).. Stainless steel shanks and Perlick 630 faucets..

I guess what I'm asking is for my next kegs.. What are some of your practices that you have good success with for carbonating properly? I am relatively new to the kegging world and very much appreciate the wisdom of you old timers.. Haha.. Thank you so much in advance.. Cheers!

Looking at mikesoltys.com line length calculator, 8 psi at 38° should give you 2.2 volumes of co2. I know that's the targeted level in some beers, but I prefer at least 2.6 volumes or more for most beers. At 38°, that would require around 13 psi and 11 ft of beer line. I would figure the line lengths for the highest carbonated beers (wheats and Belgians) you'll ever serve (3-3.5 volumes). That would require between 17 - 22 psi for your temperature, and around 15 - 20 ft of beer line. Sounds crazy, but it works.

 

[Turbo26]

Thanks Jmcquesten.. I checked out that calculator and chart.. At 38 degrees, and at 10psi, the chart suggests 2.56 volumes.. And the calculator suggests at 10psi, I need 8.33 ft of serving line.. I have 8ft right now.. Will the extra .33ft be a major factor? Much appreciated!

 

[Yooper]

Thanks Jmcquesten.. I checked out that calculator and chart.. At 38 degrees, and at 10psi, the chart suggests 2.56 volumes.. And the calculator suggests at 10psi, I need 8.33 ft of serving line.. I have 8ft right now.. Will the extra .33ft be a major factor? Much appreciated!

Calculators for line length aren't that great. I'd go with 12' of line, seriously.

What happens with a shorter serving line is that co2 is knocked out of suspension due to the lack of restriction, giving a big foam head but seemingly little carbonation in the beer itself.

10-12' line is a great length for most beer styles, but more highly carbonated styles can benefit from an even longer length.

The only disadvantage to a longer line is that it takes a couple of seconds longer to pour a beer, so I'd definitely recommend that.

 

[PlexVector]

I carb at 35-38 with 10lb and leave it at 10 lb serving with a 4.5 ft 3/16 line through a picnic faucet and I get about a 1/2 head, but only if I open the picnic faucet quickly & completely. If I slowly engage or limit the picnic faucet valve it does create a lot of foam.

 

[doug293cz]

I carb at 35-38 with 10lb and leave it at 10 lb serving with a 4.5 ft 3/16 line through a picnic faucet and I get about a 1/2 head, but only if I open the picnic faucet quickly & completely. If I slowly engage or limit the picnic faucet valve it does create a lot of foam.

Yep, that's what happens when the lines are too short. If you want to fix the situation, get some 10 ft lines.

Brew on

 

[PlexVector]

Yep, that's what happens when the lines are too short. If you want to fix the situation, get some 10 ft lines.

Brew on

What I was trying to say was it's not a problem! If I pour down the side of the glass I can control the head as long as I open the picnic faucet wide open. I like 1/4 to 1/2 inch head.

Don't fear the foam!

 

[doug293cz]

What I was trying to say was it's not a problem! If I pour down the side of the glass I can control the head as long as I open the picnic faucet wide open. I like 1/4 to 1/2 inch head.

Don't fear the foam!

I read your first post as 1/2 glass of head, not 1/2". If you're happy with your pours, then carry on...

Brew on

 

[balrog]

So, one of those "faucets attached directly to ball-lock-quick-connect" on a keg is right out? They look so fun for parties.

 

[jmcquesten]

Calculators for line length aren't that great. I'd go with 12' of line, seriously.

What happens with a shorter serving line is that co2 is knocked out of suspension due to the lack of restriction, giving a big foam head but seemingly little carbonation in the beer itself.

10-12' line is a great length for most beer styles, but more highly carbonated styles can benefit from an even longer length.

The only disadvantage to a longer line is that it takes a couple of seconds longer to pour a beer, so I'd definitely recommend that.

Yooper,

I agree that MOST calculators aren't that great, but mikesoltys.com calculator seems to be the best. It's backed up by the laws of physics, and factors in more variables than other calculators. I've used it to balance a couple of systems and it worked both times. I would be curious to see the results of a beer carbonated to 3.5 volumes and served at 40° using 10 - 12 ft of beer line (without flow control faucets or other tricks). Using the mikesoltys.com calculator, that would require 23 psi and over 19 ft of line, which would be almost double the 10 ft that a lot of people guess to be enough. Yes, that would increase the time it takes to pour a pint for a lower carbonated beer, but that's the main draw back in longer lines, the other being a little less foam on top.

 

[doug293cz]

So, one of those "faucets attached directly to ball-lock-quick-connect" on a keg is right out? They look so fun for parties.

They can work ok if you reduce the keg pressure to a few psi for serving. The carb level won't drop precipitously in a couple of hours (and the later it is in the evening, the less people are likely to notice .) Long term use would be a pita, as you would have to vent the keg prior to each serving session (wasted CO2), and then repressurize at the end of the session to avoid carbonation loss over time. You'd invariably forget to repressurize occasionally, and then be met with undercarbed beer a few days later.

It's also possible to put sufficient flow restrictions ahead of such a keg faucet (I don't know if the have them built-in, but they should.) People have had success with putting epoxy mixing nozzle inserts in the beer out dip tube of their kegs to get enough restriction when using short lines (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=5181247&postcount=10.)

Brew on

 

[Yooper]

Yooper,

I agree that MOST calculators aren't that great, but mikesoltys.com calculator seems to be the best. It's backed up by the laws of physics, and factors in more variables than other calculators. I've used it to balance a couple of systems and it worked both times. I would be curious to see the results of a beer carbonated to 3.5 volumes and served at 40° using 10 - 12 ft of beer line (without flow control faucets or other tricks). Using the mikesoltys.com calculator, that would require 23 psi and over 19 ft of line, which would be almost double the 10 ft that a lot of people guess to be enough. Yes, that would increase the time it takes to pour a pint for a lower carbonated beer, but that's the main draw back in longer lines, the other being a little less foam on top.

For higher than about 13 psi, I agree that it needs even longer lines. But 12' isn't really too long for even 11-12 psi for most pours. I thought I mentioned in my post that 12' lines would work for most beers but that more highly carbonated styles would benefit from even longer lines. Um, right here:

10-12' line is a great length for most beer styles, but more highly carbonated styles can benefit from an even longer length.

The only disadvantage to a longer line is that it takes a couple of seconds longer to pour a beer, so I'd definitely recommend that.

 

[Scriv]

I'm having the same issue, 38 degrees, 10 foot Bev Seal Ultra lines, varying pressures on different types of beers. All pour ok but don't seem like they are carbonated.

 

[Firewalker11]

I'm running 20', 3/16" lines for all my kegs right now and they pour well with 12psi @ 32F. Am I having a different result as others?

 

[jmcquesten]

For higher than about 13 psi, I agree that it needs even longer lines. But 12' isn't really too long for even 11-12 psi for most pours. I thought I mentioned in my post that 12' lines would work for most beers but that more highly carbonated styles would benefit from even longer lines. Um, right here:

Yes, you did mention that. And I certainly wasn't trying to argue with (especially) you. I was mainly drawing attention to the one calculator that many consider to be the best, and it's results for one particular scenario. I've seen plenty of people on the forum recommend 10 ft line lengths as a rule of thumb, and I originally tried that myself with poor results. I found that in both systems that I was trying to set up, the numbers from the mikesoltys.com calculator actually fixed the problems. I do realize that other people may experience different results depending on their setups. If people are able to get away with less line, that's great. But if what others are doing doesn't work for someone, they can turn to the laws of physics to get them closer.

I also realize that you suggested 12 ft lines working for most beers.

 

[doug293cz]

I'm having the same issue, 38 degrees, 10 foot Bev Seal Ultra lines, varying pressures on different types of beers. All pour ok but don't seem like they are carbonated.

Have you tried longer lines? Bev Seal Ultra is slipperier inside than regular PVC tubing, so needs longer lines to get the same amount of flow restriction (pressure drop between keg and tap.) Not enough pressure drop while pouring, and you may get too much CO2 coming out of the beer during the pour.

Brew on

 

[Turbo26]

Thanks guys for all the replies.. I'll replace the serving lines with 12ft and move my 8ft lines to my trash can portable.. Win-win.. Haha

 

[Scriv]

Have you tried longer lines? Bev Seal Ultra is slipperier inside than regular PVC tubing, so needs longer lines to get the same amount of flow restriction (pressure drop between keg and tap.) Not enough pressure drop while pouring, and you may get too much CO2 coming out of the beer during the pour.

Brew on

Not yet, I guess I'll order more and try 15' lines.

 

[jrowland74]

I'm curious to hear how this turns out. I got my Bev-seal in 50 ft. rolls. I cut them in half for 25' lines. Probably severe overkill, but I'm hesitant to cut them down only to have to buy more.

 

[Scriv]

I'm curious to hear how this turns out. I got my Bev-seal in 50 ft. rolls. I cut them in half for 25' lines. Probably severe overkill, but I'm hesitant to cut them down only to have to buy more.

That's how I buy it too, but I have 4 taps.

 

[normonster]

Have you tried longer lines? Bev Seal Ultra is slipperier inside than regular PVC tubing, so needs longer lines to get the same amount of flow restriction (pressure drop between keg and tap.) Not enough pressure drop while pouring, and you may get too much CO2 coming out of the beer during the pour.



Brew on

I have this same problem. The only other solution I've found since I never remember to buy more line is to drastically reduce pressure to serve....like 3psi. Same beer, way less head and much more co2 in solution.

 

[doug293cz]

I have this same problem. The only other solution I've found since I never remember to buy more line is to drastically reduce pressure to serve....like 3psi. Same beer, way less head and much more co2 in solution.

That works, but wastes CO2 since you have to vent the headspace before serving, and then refill (repressurize) it after serving (in order to avoid loss of carbonation over time.)

Brew on

 

[normonster]

That works, but wastes CO2 since you have to vent the headspace before serving, and then refill (repressurize) it after serving (in order to avoid loss of carbonation over time.)



Brew on

You're right but the carbonation loss is pretty slow. I can dust a keg before it even starts to seem flat. Then again I drink like a fish.