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crum

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Finally got everything to start my first kegged batch, so I went to my local HBS the other day picking up some last minute orings and what not the guy working there said never put your CO2 bottle in the fridge, it must always be outside of it. It was my lunch break and had to get back to work so I never got to talk to him about it.

Is putting your CO2 bottle in the refrigerator a problem and why? I thought I have seen the kegorators that are sold with the bottle inside with a strap to hold them.
 

NUCC98

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crum said:
Finally got everything to start my first kegged batch, so I went to my local HBS the other day picking up some last minute orings and what not the guy working there said never put your CO2 bottle in the fridge, it must always be outside of it. It was my lunch break and had to get back to work so I never got to talk to him about it.

Is putting your CO2 bottle in the refrigerator a problem and why? I thought I have seen the kegorators that are sold with the bottle inside with a strap to hold them.
I've seen a lot of kegorator setups w/ the CO2 on the inside of the door. I'm thinking that the door shelf must not get quite as cold as the rest of the interior, which is also why you should never put ice cream on the freezer door...TRUST me on that one. Anyway, I used to play paintball up at school in VT, and if it got too cold, the CO2 would start to liquify. Not only does that leave you EXTREMELY vulnerable in paintball, it can't be too great for a keg system either...
 

DeRoux's Broux

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crum said:
Finally got everything to start my first kegged batch, so I went to my local HBS the other day picking up some last minute orings and what not the guy working there said never put your CO2 bottle in the fridge, it must always be outside of it. It was my lunch break and had to get back to work so I never got to talk to him about it.

Is putting your CO2 bottle in the refrigerator a problem and why? I thought I have seen the kegorators that are sold with the bottle inside with a strap to hold them.
hey crum, you can do either. one of the main reasons not to put it inside the fridge is to prolong the life of the gauges. those puppies aren't too cheap (as i'm sure you know). lot's of people store their co2 bottles inside w/ no problems. i have had my bottle in the fridge for 2 years w/ no problems at all! :D
some people don't like to drill another hole in the fridge for the gas line to run through. that was my reasoning. but, i am about to add a third keg, so i need the space inside.
Cheers!
DeRoux's Broux
 

jjsscram

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The main thing from a safety point of veiw is not to let the co2 bottle get hot or be in the direct sun. I have never seen one blow up, but I have friend that had one go on his jeep. they use it for air tires and stuff on the trails.

jjsscram
 

jeffbones

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Also make sure your bleed valve is in good working condition. If the tank is in an area where it might get warm and it's overfilled and not clamped down.... ROCKET :eek: Shouldn't be a problem in a house with kegging but I've heard about it happing a few times on the Jeep side of things.
 

Janx

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Hmm...let's just say I'm skeptical of the stories of exploding CO2 tanks. Those things are only filled to like 800PSI, but the tanks can probably take something like 10000PSI at least. I think it's impossible to blow one up from leaving it the sun. Not improbable. Impossible.

There are a lot of myths like this one in the scuba community, too. Scuba tanks are filled to 3000+PSI. I have read some pretty convincing science as to why all the stories of tanks exploding from being in your trunk are absolutely impossible. I just don't think you can generate the heat and thus pressure to blow it up.

As far as CO2 in the fridge, I keep mine outside so I can fit another keg in there. My fridge freezes up sometimes (it's outside, so weather is a factor), and a frozen regulator is no good. I'd be worried about the gauges, too, as Deroux said, not the tank. I know a lot of guys who put the tank in the fridge. I've never thought about it being a problem, but who knows.
 

Dude

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jeffbones said:
yea I don't think the tank could explode but the safety or bleed valve can let go or why would it be there?
http://www.stu-offroad.com/index.shtml

Jeffbones are you a jeeper? I use Stu's site for all kinds of stuff regarding my Jeep. He is the foremost authority on all topics Jeep so anything he posts is worthwhile. His write-ups and knowledge are amazing.
As for his article here, great safety and all-around info, as usual.
I also fixed the link so it goes right to the CO2 article so those that aren't familiar with his site can find it easily...
Co2
Sorry for the hi-jack.........
 

jeffbones

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Thanks Orrelse for fixing the link.
Offroading in my jeep is my main hobby but this brewing thing is starting to catch up, and it's alot less expensive ;)
 
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C

crum

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From what everybody says, it confirms what I think. There should not be a problem. The only concern I have thought about is the copper and contraction with lower temperatures causing the bottle to leak.
Also from scuba tanks I don’t see a tank exploding. I have had 100 cubit foot tanks in the sun all day when it is 100degF and nothing happen to them but the pressure showing a couple hundred extra psi, nothing even close to the explosion point. From what I know most tanks explode because of a weak spot.

np on the hijack. I have done it on many occasions.
 

jjsscram

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Like I said, I had a friend have one go. It had a little help from a rock, but why take a chance.
 

harleysilo

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Any of you Jeeper/brewers on JeepForum.com? Check it out, I'm harleysilo there too. Jeeping is my main hobby, and as soon as I figure out how to integrate my 5 gal. keg an, old golf bag (needs waterproofing)and a paintball c02 tank w/regulator stored in one of the compartments I'll be having a keg in the woods!

Stu's site kicks some butt, I made the 12 Volt cordless drill and love it, that's one of those "I should have thought of that" ideas.
 

DeRoux's Broux

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jhudson said:
I ran across this article on the web and remember everyone talking about it here. I thought it was a very interesting article and thought that everyone else would like to read it as well.

http://www.catalinacylinders.com/co2heat.html
cool, thanks for the info. i was thinking about moving my bottle out of the fridge. but, my keg fridge is in my utility room, and it gets pretty warm out there in the summer. maybe i'll leave it where it is????? don't need to be patching a hole in the utility room wall! :D

DeRoux's Broux
 

jhudson

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Well, from what I've read, the majority of the tanks are rated at 1800 PSI. From reading this article, as long as the temp stays at 100 or below, you should be ok. I'm researching the same thing because I'm getting ready to buy a CO2 tank and I'm planning on leaving outside the refer. and I live in South Texas where the summer temps normally stay below 100 degrees a day. That should be ok. But, I suppose if I were really worried about it, I could put it in the fridge for a particularly hot day, or I could simply tell them to underfill the bottle a little bit. Keep in mind that is for a full tank of CO2. So, if you've already used a little bit of the gas, those pressures will drop as well.
 

Janx

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I live in California and we get 100+ degree weather. My CO2 tank is outside in the sun much of the time. I have never seen the pressure read above the 800 PSI they fill it to. I think you could have it in your trunk in 120 degree weather for 20 years and it would never blow up. Even if it did get overpressured, the safety on the regulator would release pressure, but in 12 years or so of kegging I have never seen this happen.

But that's just my experience :D
 

Tophe

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Heres my thoughts, and what the guy where i buy my CO2 bottles from said....Keep the CO2 outside of the fridge is better. It can go either way, but you will got alot more life out of the gas if it is kept warmer.....Dont worry about the gas exploding. Thats the least of my worries.........those things are designed to stand way more than what they put in them.....It simple science. The warmer the gas is, the more it will expand and you get more use out of it. The colder it is, the more dense it is , so you use it faster. I used to keep mine in the fridge before i knew this, and now i get twice as much use out of the gas than before...I would suggest keeping it outside the fridge,plus you get more room in the fridge then.
 

myndphaser

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I really don't think the temperatures anywhere on earth will get hot enough to cause a problem with the CO2 tanks. In days gone by welders and welding supply shops used to weld their names and serial numbers onto the tanks. Today's tanks aren't any different than the ones used then. If they can take the heat from a welding rod without any ill effects resulting from it, then I can't for the life of me think that a 120 degree day is going to have any impact.

Just a thought, but some of these tanks are going on 20 years old with welds on them (possibly compromising the integrity of the bottles) and nothing has gone wrong. Outside in the sun everyday for 20 years. Quit worrying about the heat.
 

Hairnutz

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Lol this is an old ass thread. I Googled co2 pressures in a fridge and this is the FIRST post. Sorry for diggin up bones. I havent read all of this old thread but I came across this reply like 4 or 5 down. This makes me lol all over. This may be covered in the 2 pages of replies - but - co2 at certain temps is liquid and gives off gas. Under its boiling temps, its frozen - no gas - aka dry ice. Scuba tanks are 3000+ but - its not apples to apples here. Take your co2 tank to a scuba center and see if they fill your tank to 3000 psi. Specs arent the same. Dont need to be. As far as temps not possible to reach? co2 tanks get cold when filled - actually recommend they chill tanks prior to filling. Scuba tanks get HOT when filled. Its compressed air. Think diesel engine here. co2 tanks are liquid - the liquid has a low bioling temp.. meh. f it. Anywho. Thought this post was funny as hell and full of misinformation.

One more edit. co2 can be thought of as the lithium ion battery of the gas. It maintaints charge throughout and drops off fast at the end where as scuba or any compresses air can be thought of as the nicad or nimh battery in that it delivers full punch off the get go and drops of quick. co2 pressure comes from the liquid converting to gas.

3rd edit. oh yeah in reference to the temps vs pressure - yeah. depending on the gas - it can literally double the pressure in 15' f. is it or has it been a problem? no. can it happen - oh hell yes.

hmm...let's just say i'm skeptical of the stories of
exploding co2 tanks. Those things are only filled to like 800psi, but the tanks can probably take something like 10000psi at least. I think it's impossible to blow one up from leaving it the sun. Not improbable. Impossible.

There are a lot of myths like this one in the scuba community, too. Scuba tanks are filled to 3000+psi. I have read some pretty convincing science as to why all the stories of tanks exploding from being in your trunk are absolutely impossible. I just don't think you can generate the heat and thus pressure to blow it up.

As far as co2 in the fridge, i keep mine outside so i can fit another keg in there. My fridge freezes up sometimes (it's outside, so weather is a factor), and a frozen regulator is no good. I'd be worried about the gauges, too, as deroux said, not the tank. I know a lot of guys who put the tank in the fridge. I've never thought about it being a problem, but who knows.
 

Finishinglast

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I know from my paintball days when I was filling small co2 tanks from a bulk tank, it was always easier to fill tanks I had put IN the freezer for twenty minutes.
Never had a tank rupture, but I did have a bleed off valve open on a 20oz tank in my backseat while I was driving down the road. That was exciting. Could have been from extreme temp changes while it sat in a hot car then cooled off from the ac while I was driving.
I would think the most important thing is trying to keep a steady temperature while your tanks are full.
 

TokyoRoad

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Heres my thoughts, and what the guy where i buy my CO2 bottles from said....Keep the CO2 outside of the fridge is better. It can go either way, but you will got alot more life out of the gas if it is kept warmer.....Dont worry about the gas exploding. Thats the least of my worries.........those things are designed to stand way more than what they put in them.....It simple science. The warmer the gas is, the more it will expand and you get more use out of it. The colder it is, the more dense it is , so you use it faster. I used to keep mine in the fridge before i knew this, and now i get twice as much use out of the gas than before...I would suggest keeping it outside the fridge,plus you get more room in the fridge then.
Interesting theory...but wrong. :) The volume of the CO2 changes imperceptibly, the pressure is what changes when at room temp. vs fridge temp. Either you are not accurately remembering the time to go through a CO2 bottle or you fixed a small leak when you moved the bottle.
 

wandering

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the pressure is what changes when at room temp. vs fridge temp.
I would have to agree....

With the cylinder warmer, the pressure INSIDE the cylinder IS higher... which makes it sound like less CO2 is required and you get more kegs per cylinder.

But once the CO2 gets inside the cooled keg, the CO2 pressure drops back down. So in the end, you need to push more CO2 into the keg to bring the keg pressure back up.

So while the cylinder pressure reads higher, the dispense rate will be higher -- so no free lunch (keg).
 

wandering

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One possible explanation for differences in usage MAY be that the warmer CO2 causes a rise in beer temperature which results in less carbonization (in the same amount of time).

But given sufficient time, the same VOLUME of CO2 should be required. (That's what you key in into the calculator after all.)
 

mmccurdy

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One possible explanation for differences in usage MAY be that the warmer CO2 causes a rise in beer temperature which results in less carbonization (in the same amount of time).

But given sufficient time, the same VOLUME of CO2 should be required. (That's what you key in into the calculator after all.)
When you release CO2 from the ~800psi tank to the ~10psi headspace in the keg, it expands and cools down significantly, so I doubt it is warming up the beer regardless of the temp of the tank.

The only credible differentiator that I've heard between inside and outside the fridge is the lifespan of the regulator, though I remain skeptical that a hunk of brass, a steel spring, and a (neoprene?) membrane will really care whether it's 38 degrees ambient or 120. With a desiccant in the fridge, it's probably also dryer (and thus more favorable) to your typical TX summer day to boot.

Sorry to beat this particular dead horse... I thought I saw him twitch... ;)
 

rperkins

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mmmmmmm

I am getting ready to build my Keezer over the next few weekends, I think I will keep my CO2 tank inside the keezer. One less hole to drill was the main reason!!! :rolleyes:
 
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