Cloudy pale ale in the keg...

[hendo80]

Just kegged my first AG (BIAB single vessel) batch of pale ale. It was a SMaSH and I thought it was doing awesome after 3 weeks in the fermenter. Clear, nice simple hops flavor.

I left it on for another week (got busy) and then finally kegged at a little over 4 weeks. OG was around 1.054, FG was 1.009.

Observations and a question: taste was OK, but not as crisp as earlier tasting, in fact it's a little off on the nose. And it's cloudy. I know I picked up too much of the yeast cake with my auto siphon (live and learn, a lot more trub than I had with partial and extracts).

Hoping it settles out, but now I envision all of that yeast creating a nice sediment layer on the bottom of the keg. Is there anything I can do to get back to the crystal clear goodness I had when I was sampling? Is the yeast effecting the aroma? Taste is pretty good.

I have it refrigerated now (force carbing), thinking I might take it out and let it sit at room temp for another week or two and see if that helps on all fronts...?

 

[RM-MN]

Even if your beer was crystal clear and you sucked up no yeast from the fermenter, your beer still has a lot of suspended yeast that will settle out. Your first pour or so will be cloudy as the dip tube picks up a little of the yeast that has settled to the bottom of the keg but with more time at cold temperature most of the yeast will settle out, compact on the bottom of the keg and unless you disturb it, the dip tube will quit picking it up. Leaving it refrigerated is probably the best thing to do now.

 

[wilserbrewer]

A week or two of cold conditioning will improve your beer greatly. You should have kegged it 10 days ago, then you would be pleased now

 

[wardens355]

Could be chill haze if you had been sampling warm, and then racked to keg cold and sampled then. Give it a couple weeks as mentioned above. I would definitely not warm it back up. Keep it as cold as possible to accelerate the clearing process.

 

[Natdavis777]

Nothing a few weeks in the fridge wont cure. My last pale was pretty cloudy for the first week or so, and by the time the keg kicked (only lasted 4 weeks) I could watch TV through it.

On a side note, if you wanted to clear it fast, you could make a gelatin solution and add to the keg, should be pretty clear after a few days. I feel, as do some others, that it strips some hop aroma though so you have to decide on the lesser of two evils.

 

[hendo80]

thanks for the advice, I'll leave it cold and see how it goes!

 

[LLBrewer]

Go get you some Knox unflavored gelatin, heat up about 1/2 cup of water to 165, mix in 1/2 packet of gelatin, cool, dump in fermenter, wait a couple of days. You're welcome.

 

[hendo80]

Go get you some Knox unflavored gelatin, heat up about 1/2 cup of water to 165, mix in 1/2 packet of gelatin, cool, dump in fermenter, wait a couple of days. You're welcome.

so I have heard of this, and honestly, didn't even realize it was gelatin like you could buy at a grocery store....

Where are you on the "impacts hops flavor" scale with gelatin?

 

[Natdavis777]

so I have heard of this, and honestly, didn't even realize it was gelatin like you could buy at a grocery store....

Where are you on the "impacts hops flavor" scale with gelatin?

I dont have any referenced literature, but its out there somewhere, but hop oils bind with yeast cells in a nutshell. When you use gelatin, it helps drop out hazing proteins and suspended yeast. Therefore, cold crashing/gelatin after dryhopping can drop out some aroma. Now, the same argument could be made with simply cold crashing the beer over a few weeks without gelatin, since the yeast still floccs out.

All I can tell you is, and others have had similar experiences, is that I have dry hopped and then gelatin'd beers in the past and noticed a "subdued" aroma opposed to the same beer where I didnt gelatin it. Case in point a Zombie Dust clone I made. First time was awesome, no gelatin used, 4oz dry hop. Second time around, same process, but gelatin. Noticed the aroma lacked a bit. Same thing 3rd time around. Could just be me though, as others dont get the same results. The one result I can guarentee though is clear beer!

 

[Bobcatbrewing42]

You will get some yeast at the bottom of your keg. I find that all of my beers run a bit cloudy and get clearer with time. When the glasses are as crystal as filtered beer the end is near.

 

[hendo80]

I dont have any referenced literature, but its out there somewhere, but hop oils bind with yeast cells in a nutshell. When you use gelatin, it helps drop out hazing proteins and suspended yeast. Therefore, cold crashing/gelatin after dryhopping can drop out some aroma. Now, the same argument could be made with simply cold crashing the beer over a few weeks without gelatin, since the yeast still floccs out.

All I can tell you is, and others have had similar experiences, is that I have dry hopped and then gelatin'd beers in the past and noticed a "subdued" aroma opposed to the same beer where I didnt gelatin it. Case in point a Zombie Dust clone I made. First time was awesome, no gelatin used, 4oz dry hop. Second time around, same process, but gelatin. Noticed the aroma lacked a bit. Same thing 3rd time around. Could just be me though, as others dont get the same results. The one result I can guarentee though is clear beer!

interesting...this is helpful, as I am about to move my second batch (major IPA) to secondary and dry hop. I'll see what I get in the secondary and then careful handling to the keg next weekend.

I laughed when I saw the Zombie Dust reference...I picked up a bottle last week at a store where the conversation went like this...clerk: "psst, hey mister, want some zombie dust?"...me: "uhh, what is it?"....clerk looks at me as if perhaps I don't deserve to know, then goes into the back room and comes out with a single bottle

so now my precious is sitting in the back of the refrigerator....it better be good...I like hoppy pale ales and IPAs, so I'll eventually see what all the hoopla is about!

 

[NathPowe]

This would obviously only be relevant on future brews, but I didn't see a mention of what yeast you used. This can also affect clarity. I use WLP007 for most of my ales and, after a cold crash in the fermenter and a few days in the keg, the beers really start clear up quickly. Much faster than say, US-05 for example. This is actually one of the major reasons why I use WLP007 (that and the beers taste really good).

Also make sure you've got a solid amount of calcium in your brewing liquor. I've read that this can help with flocculation and, while this is only anecdotal, I've noticed an improvement in clarity after keeping calcium levels up.

Finally - it's like all the other folks said. Give it a week cold in a keg and that will make a big difference as well. Cheers and enjoy the brew.

 

[RM-MN]

I dont have any referenced literature, but its out there somewhere, but hop oils bind with yeast cells in a nutshell. When you use gelatin, it helps drop out hazing proteins and suspended yeast. Therefore, cold crashing/gelatin after dryhopping can drop out some aroma. Now, the same argument could be made with simply cold crashing the beer over a few weeks without gelatin, since the yeast still floccs out.

All I can tell you is, and others have had similar experiences, is that I have dry hopped and then gelatin'd beers in the past and noticed a "subdued" aroma opposed to the same beer where I didnt gelatin it. Case in point a Zombie Dust clone I made. First time was awesome, no gelatin used, 4oz dry hop. Second time around, same process, but gelatin. Noticed the aroma lacked a bit. Same thing 3rd time around. Could just be me though, as others dont get the same results. The one result I can guarentee though is clear beer!

What would the results be if you used gelatin in the primary, then dry hopped a couple days later? Would you still get the clarity with the benefit of more hop aroma?

 

[hendo80]

This would obviously only be relevant on future brews, but I didn't see a mention of what yeast you used. This can also affect clarity. I use WLP007 for most of my ales and, after a cold crash in the fermenter and a few days in the keg, the beers really start clear up quickly. Much faster than say, US-05 for example. This is actually one of the major reasons why I use WLP007 (that and the beers taste really good).

Also make sure you've got a solid amount of calcium in your brewing liquor. I've read that this can help with flocculation and, while this is only anecdotal, I've noticed an improvement in clarity after keeping calcium levels up.

Finally - it's like all the other folks said. Give it a week cold in a keg and that will make a big difference as well. Cheers and enjoy the brew.

indeed, I used two packages of US-05....and for my next batch, I have two vials of WLP007 and I also have some calcium...game on!

 

[Natdavis777]

What would the results be if you used gelatin in the primary, then dry hopped a couple days later? Would you still get the clarity with the benefit of more hop aroma?

I am going to try that method on this next batch I brew tomorrow. I plan to:
1. Primary ferment
2. Cold crash
3. Add gelatin to primary (I like to add to already cold beer)
4. Resume cold crash
5. Transfer to serving keg, purge with c02, and warm to room temp
6. Drop dry hops in nylon sack in keg, purge with c02
7. Pull after 7 days, carb, serve

I anticipate that the final product may still have some haze from the dry hop, but overall should be more clear than a beer without the gelatin. As of late I havent been using gelatin on my Pale beers, so hopefully this will give me the best of both worlds. I know I saw someone on here recently who used this technique and they liked the results. Ill start a thread with results. Already have the info/pics with dry hopping before gelatin.

Sorry OP not trying to hijack

 

[hendo80]

I am going to try that method on this next batch I brew tomorrow. I plan to:
1. Primary ferment
2. Cold crash
3. Add gelatin to primary (I like to add to already cold beer)
4. Resume cold crash
5. Transfer to serving keg, purge with c02, and warm to room temp
6. Drop dry hops in nylon sack in keg, purge with c02
7. Pull after 7 days, carb, serve

I anticipate that the final product may still have some haze from the dry hop, but overall should be more clear than a beer without the gelatin. As of late I havent been using gelatin on my Pale beers, so hopefully this will give me the best of both worlds. I know I saw someone on here recently who used this technique and they liked the results. Ill start a thread with results. Already have the info/pics with dry hopping before gelatin.

Sorry OP not trying to hijack

I just put my IPA to secondary for dry hopping. I was pretty careful in the transfer, so I'll skip the gelatin on this IPA, but the DIPA I brewed yesterday will get a similar treatment as you describe above. I really hadn't thought about dry hopping in the keg, but that's absolutely the way to go if you can get the clarity you want from the primary. Definitely like the idea of cold crashing in the primary, which will work great since my IPA is in secondary next to the DIPA in the fermentation keezer. I can cold crash them both before kegging....

thanks for all the tips and thoughts, all very helpful!