Closed transfer system; bucket to keg

[h22lude]

I have been searching the old Googleweb to see if anyone has done a closed transfer system from plastic bucket to keg. Couldn't find much at all.

Has anyone done this? My thought is have two holes in the lid. Either use two grommets and two airlocks or put a stopper in one and grommet/airlock in the other. Then to transfer I would need a racking cane to fit in one hole and CO2 line to fit in the other. Not sure how well the fitment will be. Each hole needs to be air tight and also be able to fit two different things. If I went with two airlocks, then each hole with grommet would need to be big enough for CO2 line and racking cane.

 

[EcuPirate07]

I have been searching the old Googleweb to see if anyone has done a closed transfer system from plastic bucket to keg. Couldn't find much at all.

Has anyone done this? My thought is have two holes in the lid. Either use two grommets and two airlocks or put a stopper in one and grommet/airlock in the other. Then to transfer I would need a racking cane to fit in one hole and CO2 line to fit in the other. Not sure how well the fitment will be. Each hole needs to be air tight and also be able to fit two different things. If I went with two airlocks, then each hole with grommet would need to be big enough for CO2 line and racking cane.

It would be interesting to see if you could make this work. But on the other hand why not just ferment in a keg then use the piggy back tube to transfer to a clean empty keg? Same process just with kegs, the beer would never touch the air.

I guess the only downside would be a lot of tied up kegs if you brew a lot

 

[IslandLizard]

I've been thinking about doing the same. Drilling for example two 1/2" or 1" holes allow you to insert regular bungs either closed or with various size holes for a racking cane, CO2 tubing etc. It should be large enough so the flow inverter tippy on the cane can pass through. I have a bunch of 3.5 gallon buckets where I drilled a 1" hole in the center for a bung and airlock. It also gives me access to drop spice and adjuncts in, and it doubles as an inspection hole. Now racking through that hole is a bit tricky and since it's in the center, tipping is counter productive.

There's always the issue of leakage along the rim and it's difficult to see the depth of the racking cane to prevent sucking up trub and yeast. Now you could measure the depth for the bucket in use and put a mark or piece of tape on the cane.

I always tip the bucket toward the end to get more beer out and leaving only a little behind for yeast harvesting.

 

[IslandLizard]

It would be interesting to see if you could make this work. But on the other hand why not just ferment in a keg then use the piggy back tube to transfer to a clean empty keg? Same process just with kegs, the beer would never touch the air.

I guess the only downside would be a lot of tied up kegs if you brew a lot

Biggest issue when using corny kegs as fermentors is lack of headspace on 5 gallon batches. It's not that simple to prevent unintentional transfer of trub and yeast either.

 

[h22lude]

It would be interesting to see if you could make this work. But on the other hand why not just ferment in a keg then use the piggy back tube to transfer to a clean empty keg? Same process just with kegs, the beer would never touch the air.

I guess the only downside would be a lot of tied up kegs if you brew a lot

I just test fit my air line with the grommet in a lid and it fit well. I also test fit the racking cane from my autosiphon. That was a little too small. I wonder if a stainless racking cane would be any wider. Even if it was a hair wider I think it would work. Then I could use two holes with grommets/airlocks to ferment and the racking cane and air line would fit in those grommets.

I was thinking about using a keg as a fermenter but worried about the little headroom it would have for krausen.

 

[h22lude]

I've been thinking about doing the same. Drilling for example two 1/2" or 1" holes allow you to insert regular bungs either closed or with various size holes for a racking cane, CO2 tubing etc. It should be large enough so the flow inverter tippy on the cane can pass through. I have a bunch of 3.5 gallon buckets where I drilled a 1" hole in the center for a bung and airlock. It also gives me access to drop spice and adjuncts in, and it doubles as an inspection hole. Now racking through that hole is a bit tricky and since it's in the center, tipping is counter productive.

There's always the issue of leakage along the rim and it's difficult to see the depth of the racking cane to prevent sucking up trub and yeast. Now you could measure the depth for the bucket in use and put a mark or piece of tape on the cane.

I always tip the bucket toward the end to get more beer out and leaving only a little behind for yeast harvesting.

Another way to fix getting trub is to slowly move the racking cane up while you transfer until you see the beer in the line clear up. May not get all of it like you would if you were tipping the bucket but losing out on a few ounces won't be a huge deal.

Could just let some trub go into the serving keg and dump it after the beer is carbonated. The first pull would be trub.

 

[BrunDog]

I have given this a bit of thought lately. I am really anal about sanitation, so I already have a closed xfer from brew rig into the fermenter.

For fermenter to keg, currently I use gravity by putting the fermenter on a table, then remove the airlock from my Speidel fermenter, put a star-San soaked towel over the port, spray the crap out of the spigot, pull a hydrometer sample, then attach a sanitized 3/8" silicone hose into my sanitized keg, covered by another soaked towel. I open the spigot slightly to eliminate splashing at first, then open it further once the hose end is well covered.

What I have been considering is making a short hose with liquid ball lock disconnect on the end. I would then sanitize, seal, and fill the keg with CO2, then connect the hose assembly between the spigot and the keg. Open the keg airlock and let the keg fill, purging the CO2 simultaneously.

This would work great to eliminate oxygen and maintain sanitation but there are a couple shortcomings. The two most important are the probability of trub getting caught in the disconnect/poppet, and not know when to stop filling. I could use a scale for the latter but not sure I could address the former.

 

[IslandLizard]

Another way to fix getting trub is to slowly move the racking cane up while you transfer until you see the beer in the line clear up. May not get all of it like you would if you were tipping the bucket but losing out on a few ounces won't be a huge deal.

Could just let some trub go into the serving keg and dump it after the beer is carbonated. The first pull would be trub.

I never stick the cane on the bottom, I like to transfer without any trub or yeast as it clouds the clear, cold crashed beer again.

Therefore, I always start racking from somewhat below the middle of beer bucket, then slowly move the cane down from there, not up from the bottom. When there's a gallon or so left, I start tipping the bucket forward (or carboy when doing sours). Since the bucket is mostly open (a sanitized lid lies on top) I can see where the beer level is and when to clamp the tube to prevent gurgling air. Recently I started transferring to 100% pre-purged kegs, filling through the liquid out post. It's quite a trick in itself to prevent air getting in when connecting the racking tube... Not sure what the most elegant method is yet.

 

[h22lude]

I have given this a bit of thought lately. I am really anal about sanitation, so I already have a closed xfer from brew rig into the fermenter.

For fermenter to keg, currently I use gravity by putting the fermenter on a table, then remove the airlock from my Speidel fermenter, put a star-San soaked towel over the port, spray the crap out of the spigot, pull a hydrometer sample, then attach a sanitized 3/8" silicone hose into my sanitized keg, covered by another soaked towel. I open the spigot slightly to eliminate splashing at first, then open it further once the hose end is well covered.

What I have been considering is making a short hose with liquid ball lock disconnect on the end. I would then sanitize, seal, and fill the keg with CO2, then connect the hose assembly between the spigot and the keg. Open the keg airlock and let the keg fill, purging the CO2 simultaneously.

This would work great to eliminate oxygen and maintain sanitation but there are a couple shortcomings. The two most important are the probability of trub getting caught in the disconnect/poppet, and not know when to stop filling. I could use a scale for the latter but not sure I could address the former.

Your best bet is to fill the keg with starsan first then purge out the starsan with co2. Filling the keg with co2 won't purge the o2. It doesn't make a blanket like you read a lot about. The co2 and o2 actually do mix. You would need to purge way too much co2 for it to work.

 

[h22lude]

I never stick the cane on the bottom, I like to transfer without any trub or yeast as it clouds the clear, cold crashed beer again.

Therefore, I always start racking from somewhat below the middle of beer bucket, then slowly move the cane down from there, not up from the bottom. When there's a gallon or so left, I start tipping the bucket forward (or carboy when doing sours). Since the bucket is mostly open (a sanitized lid lies on top) I can see where the beer level is and when to clamp the tube to prevent gurgling air. Recently I started transferring to 100% pre-purged kegs, filling through the liquid out post. It's quite a trick in itself to prevent air getting in when connecting the racking tube... Not sure what the most elegant method is yet.

I would think removing the airlock and putting in a racking cane wouldn't add much o2, if any.

 

[dbillingsby]

What about hooking a hose to the spigot on a bucket and the other end a disconnect and attach to the out line of the keg. Maybe crack the lid or maybe you could get enough air in through the airlock hole so it will siphon out. I know it wouldn't be a closed transfer but would save time having to clean a auto siphon and reduce the chances of oxygen a little more. Anybody try that? I was thinking trying that on my next keg I do.

 

[IslandLizard]

I would think removing the airlock and putting in a racking cane wouldn't add much o2, if any.

I wasn't referring to air going into the fermentor, but air entering my 100% CO2 purged keg. I'm filling the racking cane and tubing with beer before connecting to the liquid out QD already mounted to the keg's post, so no air from the cane and tubing gets into the keg.

Now air getting into the bucket while racking is another potential oxidation issue. A pressurized transfer takes care of both, if we want to minimize the beer's exposure to oxygen (air), which we're looking to achieve when packaging hoppy beers.

 

[h22lude]

I have read a lot of people say it is hard to keep the spigot clean, which I can see happening.

 

[h22lude]

I wasn't referring to air going into the fermentor, but air entering my 100% CO2 purged keg. I'm filling the racking cane and tubing with beer before connecting to the liquid out QD already mounted to the keg's post, so no air from the cane and tubing gets into the keg.

Now air getting into the bucket while racking is another potential oxidation issue. A pressurized transfer takes care of both, if we want to minimize the beer's exposure to oxygen (air), which we're looking to achieve when packaging hoppy beers.

If you never remove the lid, no O2 can get into the bucket. Remove the airlock and put the racking cane in its place. Sure, you may get a very very very small amount of air in when you remove the airlock but it would only be a tiny amount of O2 which won't be enough to do anything. Much better than opening the lid and using an autosiphon.

 

[hezagenius]

I did a closed transfer last night. I have a Fermonster. I put the steel racking cane through a rubber stopper and put that where the thermowell stopper was. I took out the airlock and put 3/8" hose barb x 1/4" MFL flare in its place. The gas line connected to the flare. I used about 4psi i think. Even at that pressure, it was quite hard to hold the stopper and the gas line in. Took about 10 minutes. I purged the keg and then filled through the liquid post. I pulled the PRV and left it open during the transfer. I used a ton of CO2 as well.

 

[BrunDog]

Your best bet is to fill the keg with starsan first then purge out the starsan with co2. Filling the keg with co2 won't purge the o2. It doesn't make a blanket like you read a lot about. The co2 and o2 actually do mix. You would need to purge way too much co2 for it to work.

Yes, I agree. No way to eliminate O2 without displacement. I would probably never care enough to do a full purge that way but no doubt it would work perfectly.