Cloning HopHands by Tired Hands Brewing Company

[chlehb]

Did you use WY 1318? Mine was also going pretty crazy. Also had the thickest krausen I have had to date. I'm probably going to bottle mine today.

 

[Coff]

This yeast is nuts. Or maybe it's because I built up my water from RO. Using a blow off there was not much action when I went to bed at the 7 hour mark. But this morning at the 17 hour mark it was a steady flow of CO2. Not really bubbling just flowing. Same thing tonight. I've never experience such a fermentation and I've used some Belgians and Hefe yeasts.

Yup, that's LA3. Thick krausen to, and will last for a long time.

 

[Coff]

Jean was just on Steal This Beer and said they use Thomas Fawcett Oat malt in all of their oat hoppy beers. Ironically I just bought 10 lbs of it last week. Gonna brew an IPA like Alien Church with it this weekend.

 

[Oldskewl]

Coff please share your results/recipe of the Alien Church. I would love to give it a try after a couple Hop Hands attempts. Want to try a Punge recipe too!

I was scared last night. At about the 54 hour mark fermentation seemed to almost stop. Went from a crazy flow to almost nothing in 24 hours. It blew quite a bit of yeast into the blow off bottle, which surprised me since my SS brew bucket has a fair amount of headspace. Do to the SS Brew Bucket I can't see the krausen. I checked it again this morning and still have a bubble about every 8 seconds, so those yeast are still eating.

 

[Oldskewl]

Chlehb, yeah I used 1318. First time using it.

 

[mintyice]

Jean was just on Steal This Beer and said they use Thomas Fawcett Oat malt in all of their oat hoppy beers. Ironically I just bought 10 lbs of it last week. Gonna brew an IPA like Alien Church with it this weekend.

Cool podcast. Lots of good info about SaisonHands as well. I wonder if 30-40% oats applies to HopHands as well.

 

[Coff]

Cool podcast. Lots of good info about SaisonHands as well. I wonder if 30-40% oats applies to HopHands as well.

Yea he was pretty forthcoming with a bunch of info, the saison ferment temps are cool but a lot of people go that hot. I grabbed a growler of that concrete saison, trying it tonight, super pumped about that one.

I took the 30-40% comment as their top end range, I highly doubt HopHands goes that high but I could be wrong. Milkshake has to be in that 30-40 range though.

 

[jessup]

Oat malt & flaked oats are not the same. No way theres 30-40% oat malt in there!

 

[Coff]

Oat malt & flaked oats are not the same. No way theres 30-40% oat malt in there!

In where, HopHands? I dont think so either. But Jean said in the interview that their beers have "up to 30-40% Oat Malt". Its not us speculating, its the brewer making that point. He didnt say exactly which beers have that much oats but I was speculating it could be the milkshakes.

 

[mintyice]

In where, HopHands? I dont think so either. But Jean said in the interview that their beers have "up to 30-40% Oat Malt". Its not us speculating, its the brewer making that point. He didnt say exactly which beers have that much oats but I was speculating it could be the milkshakes.

I have the Omnipollo milkshake recipe and it's 70% pils, 20% wheat, & 10% oats. I'm sure TH changed it up because Jean made it sounds like it's mostly oats. My latest hophandsish-whatever followed that bill but I split the pils with half pale.

I'm curious to try oat malt in this recipe now though along with fermenting cooler.

 

[Sleepyemt]

I have the Omnipollo milkshake recipe and it's 70% pils, 20% wheat, & 10% oats. I'm sure TH changed it up because Jean made it sounds like it's mostly oats. My latest hophandsish-whatever followed that bill but I split the pils with half pale.



I'm curious to try oat malt in this recipe now though along with fermenting cooler.

I'd love to get the rest of the recipe from you! 10% GNO or flaked?

 

[Oldskewl]

Is everyone using whirlfloc in this Hop Hand recipe? If so, what is the purpose? I have never used it as I thought it was used to prevent boilovers in boil kettles with limited headroom. After re-reading this thread I saw Coff mention he brewed a batch without and it was like mud.

 

[Coff]

Is everyone using whirlfloc in this Hop Hand recipe? If so, what is the purpose? I have never used it as I thought it was used to prevent boilovers in boil kettles with limited headroom. After re-reading this thread I saw Coff mention he brewed a batch without and it was like mud.

I think youre confusing Whirlfloc with Ferm cap, which is food grade silicon that helps against blow off and boil overs. Whirlfloc helps promote the dropping out of break material, beta glucan, and other haze causing proteins. Just bc this style tends to be hazy does not mean you should forgo sound brewing practices.

With the sheer amount of oats, hops, and how 1318 reacts to those conditions you wont have any issue keeping a persistent haze. Trust me, Ive brewed this recipe, and others like it, 25+ times itll be plenty hazy even when youre using whirlfloc.

 

[Oldskewl]

Whoops! Thanks for the clarification Coff! Looks like my first batch of the Hop Hands Clone will be MUD! Ha Ha! I'm sure it will still be good. Those LA3 yeast are still going to town. Still getting a blurp from blow off every 11 seconds on day 5. Still debating dry hopping in the primary or the keg.

 

[chlehb]

Bottled my batch this weekend. I must say I don't have high hopes for it after tasting the hydrometer. It's quite dry and bitter. However I always get this feeling when packaging and most of the time the beers turn out great after a week or two in the bottle.

What's the deal with oat malt? I saw that my LHBS carries it. Do I use it like flaked oats? What are the differences?

 

[ryancrook]

I have the Omnipollo milkshake recipe and it's 70% pils, 20% wheat, & 10% oats. I'm sure TH changed it up because Jean made it sounds like it's mostly oats. My latest hophandsish-whatever followed that bill but I split the pils with half pale.



I'm curious to try oat malt in this recipe now though along with fermenting cooler.

Is there flour in the recipe? This article mentions it being grown used in the milkshake series
http://beergraphs.com/bg/973-two-brewers-admit-their-methods-for-haze/

 

[skibb]

chlehb: Oat malt will provide similar contributions to head retention and body, but also some additional flavor you get from its malting process. Flaked products tend to be more flavor neutral than their malted counterparts.

ryancrook: I highly doubt there is any flour in this recipe - the use of flower for the milkshake style beer is to make that beer look as much like a milkshake as possible (along with using pectins for haze). As seen in this thread, many people have gotten their beers to have that TH look with just oats/chloride/dry hops.

 

[aknox]

I love that article and I love all of the hate for the flour in beer and "new" tactics. I'm working on a Alien Church recipe. I will share if you are interested.

 

[AfroHopster]

I love that article and I love all of the hate for the flour in beer and "new" tactics. I'm working on a Alien Church recipe. I will share if you are interested.

Yes please do also what is the oat malt subbed in for the flaked oats

 

[ryancrook]

chlehb: Oat malt will provide similar contributions to head retention and body, but also some additional flavor you get from its malting process. Flaked products tend to be more flavor neutral than their malted counterparts.

ryancrook: I highly doubt there is any flour in this recipe - the use of flower for the milkshake style beer is to make that beer look as much like a milkshake as possible (along with using pectins for haze). As seen in this thread, many people have gotten their beers to have that TH look with just oats/chloride/dry hops.

I agree there's no flour in any of the tree house beers. Nate has been vocal about that.

 

[ryancrook]

ryancrook: I highly doubt there is any flour in this recipe - the use of flower for the milkshake style beer is to make that beer look as much like a milkshake as possible (along with using pectins for haze). As seen in this thread, many people have gotten their beers to have that TH look with just oats/chloride/dry hops.

I agree there's no flour in any of the tree house beers. Nate has been vocal about that.

 

[Oldskewl]

I wish mine would finish fermenting. On day 12 in the fermenter and still getting a "BLURP" every 45 seconds. There is a lot of sediment in the blow-off vessel. Wondering if I didn't lose too many yeasties and its making the remainders finisher her up. Ding to get this transferred to the keg and dry-hopped. Plus I am going to try my hand at harvesting/washing the yeast for a couple more batches over the summer.

 

[grassfeeder]

take a gravity reading. don't go by the "burp" alone. 12 days it should be more than finished.

 

[AfroHopster]

So if I'm using Thomas facuett oat malt what or how much should I substitute.

 

[Oldskewl]

I gradually turned up the temp in the fermentation chamber to 70 degrees over about 3 days. The bubbling finally stopped on day 16. I kegged on day 17. I did check FG an it was at 1.012 for 3 days. I was surprised to see the yeast still hanging out on top of the beer. Decided to harvest/wash yeast to re-use since ordering liquid yeast in the summer won't fly. I probably should have scooped some off the top, but followed the washing procdure. Let's hope it worked.

 

[Coff]

Thats LAIII for you, just hangs on top forever.

 

[Coff]

So if I'm using Thomas facuett oat malt what or how much should I substitute.

I just brewed with it last night, went with the same 18%. Different hops and rate but I should get a good feel for the Oats.

 

[Oldskewl]

I'll be curious to hear how it turns out. In another theread, "Punge Clone thread" it sounds like the guy had a bad crush and missed OG by a good bit.

 

[chlehb]

So here it is, 2 weeks in the bottle (sorry for the bad lighting):

This guy pours a thick, creamy white head. The smell is amazing. Like a beery basket of fruit. Two friends received a bottle and each wrote me a text independently to the like of "holy **** the smell is amazing!".

The first taste is fruity, creamy, bitter. Gives way to a light, maybe lacking body, more bitterness and spice. It's hard to say what taste is left behind because it's dominated by the bitterness.

All in all a nice IPA that I'll be happy to drink but I wish was a little bit different.

Notes:
I will definitely be brewing this again sometime.

I only used 10% oats as I didn't have enough on hand. That may be why the body feels a bit lacking. I'm not the biggest fan of pale, no-crystal ales though so I'll be doing the recommended 18% oats and about 5% light crystal.

I'm a bit stumped on why this is so bitter, I only used 13g of Chinook (14%) for 15L, putting this at only 33 calculated IBUs, though it must be way more. So next time I'll definitely go for Columbus and probably use only half the bittering addition.

Also, I'll be doing a dunk-sparge next time and I might mash a tad higher to get a bit more body.

Great work on this Coff and thanks for the recipe!

 

[loctones]

I'm a bit stumped on why this is so bitter

I had the same reaction on earlier versions of this type of beer. It was way more bitter than my software had calculated. Basically, it's because dry hopping can increase bitterness. Here's a great article on it:

http://scottjanish.com/increasing-bitterness-dry-hopping/

On my last iteration of this kind of beer I cut the bittering additions down to almost nothing and it turned out to be a great choice.

 

[grassfeeder]

maybe try to FWH it as well, making the battering additions a bit 'softer'

 

[mintyice]

I always do 0.25oz Columbus for pretty much everything and calculate my IBUs based on whirlpool additions. It can get more bitter depending on how long you wait until you hit 185F. I'll do a 5min addition, but when I cut the heat, I chill down to 185F in about a minute. If you are waiting 20mins to hit 185F instead of chilling to 185F, then those 5 minute additions get more bitter. Either just move them to right at flameout, or just add more hops at 185F.

 

[chlehb]

I actually did FWH this beer.
Getting to 85°C (185°F) for the whirlpool addition wouldn't have taken too long either, my immersion chiller is pretty fast. I'll have to read up on that DH article!

edit: Interesting article! As this beer is low IBU and my hops were stored lose than ideally (higher percentage of oxidized alpha acids), I can well imagine that the heavy DH increased my IBUs. However, the hydrometer sample I tried was already very bitter and the bitterness is rather harsh, not smooth as described in the article.

 

[AfroHopster]

So could I use like
5lbs of pale ale malt
4lbs of Thomas facuett oat malt
1.5lbs of flaked oats

 

[Oldskewl]

I actually did FWH this beer.
Getting to 85°C (185°F) for the whirlpool addition wouldn't have taken too long either, my immersion chiller is pretty fast. I'll have to read up on that DH article!

edit: Interesting article! As this beer is low IBU and my hops were stored lose than ideally (higher percentage of oxidized alpha acids), I can well imagine that the heavy DH increased my IBUs. However, the hydrometer sample I tried was already very bitter and the bitterness is rather harsh, not smooth as described in the article.

I just had my first couple glasses of my Hop Hands clone and it turned out very good! Aroma is awesome, initial hop flavor is awesome, but the aftertaste is more bitter than I remember Hop Hands being. Still a very good beer, but may try to tame the bitter finish in my next batch as well. I will see how it develops over the next week or two before I make any decisions.

So could I use like
5lbs of pale ale malt
4lbs of Thomas facuett oat malt
1.5lbs of flaked oats

I am not an expert on Oat malt, but people seem to be using similar amounts of oat malt as they would flaked malt. Your total oat% is over 50%. I would cut that back to the 15-25% range depending on what you are trying to accomplish. I am happy with the mouth feel of mine at 18%.

Not the best pic but thought I would share

 

[droder1]

Does anyone have a report yet on oat malt vs flaked oats? (As in, flavor or mouthfeel differences).

 

[tagz]

Apparently Jean has used both at tired hands. They started with flaked, and switched to malted when their supplier was out during one of their orders. He said he loved aroma it produced during mashing so much that he stuck with it. Sounded like the difference in the end product was small. Can't relay any personal experience though; I've only used flaked.

 

[grassfeeder]

Going to be doing this recipe in a couple of days. Looking forward to the results!

Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: American IPA
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5.5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 7.5 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.052
Efficiency: 63% (brew house)


STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.072
Final Gravity: 1.018
ABV (standard): 7.06%
IBU (tinseth): 32.47
SRM (morey): 5.26

FERMENTABLES:
13 lb - American - Pale 2-Row (78.8%)
0.5 lb - Corn Sugar - Dextrose (3%)
0.5 lb - American - Caramel / Crystal 10L (3%)
0.5 lb - American - Carapils (Dextrine Malt) (3%)
1 lb - American - White Wheat (6.1%)
1 lb - Flaked Oats (6.1%)

HOPS:
1 oz - Mosaic, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Boil for 30 min, IBU: 32.47
2 oz - Galaxy, Type: Pellet, AA: 14.25, Use: Whirlpool for 30 min at 170 °F
2 oz - El Dorado, Type: Pellet, AA: 15.7, Use: Whirlpool for 30 min at 170 °F
2 oz - Mosaic, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Whirlpool for 30 min at 170 °F
3 oz - Galaxy, Type: Pellet, AA: 14.25, Use: Dry Hop for 5 days
3 oz - El Dorado, Type: Pellet, AA: 15.7, Use: Dry Hop for 5 days
3 oz - Mosaic, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Dry Hop for 5 days

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Infusion, Temp: 150 F, Time: 60 min, Amount: 5.03 gal
2) Sparge, Temp: 168 F, Time: 15 min, Amount: 4.42 gal
Starting Mash Thickness: 1.25 qt/lb

YEAST:
Imperial Yeast - A04 Barbarian (vermont ale yeast)
Starter: Yes
Form: Liquid
Attenuation (avg): 73%
Flocculation: Medium
Optimum Temp: 62 - 70 F
Fermentation Temp: 65 F

 

[MerlinWerks]

Reminds me of an old Tom Waits song

 

[Oldskewl]

Reminds me of an old Tom Waits song

Had to look that one up. Couldn't think of the song. For those that don't know Tom Wait, "The Piano's been Drinking"