Clone Brewing

[fdemt84]

I did my first home brew with a friend of mine that has brewed quite a bit himself. We did a clone beer out of a book called Beer Captured. Its a Hefe-weisse beer. We followed the directions as stated and when we got to the end it told us to bring the water to a boil before adding the dry mal extract for bottling. We did not have the required amount of extract so we did the calculations and added 3/4 cup Malt dextrose and boiled for 10 additional minutes as stated.
Now here is the problem. Its been 3 weeks since bottling and the beer has good flavor and color, but is flat. I have read some other posts on carbination but havent found one that quite fits my problem. I am curious as to if the problem is the dextrose and not enough of it or the additional boiling after it was added to the water. My friend has never done the additional boil and from the sounds of it no one else does either. Has anyone used recipes from this book and had issues with the bottling process? Thanks for the help. I live over in Germany right now so getting supplies and materials is a little more difficult, so when i do batches im going to be a little more careful and order a little extra material to hopefully avoid futures problems

 

[nediver]

If it's fermented. Pitch some sugar and a clean yeast. Like cal ale 1056 or safale US05. The yeast will go after the simple sugar and not affect taste because it's a clean yeast.

 

[fdemt84]

Should I pop the tops on all the bottles to add the sugar and yeast?

 

[Zamial]

woah there...we need LOTS of info before a pop and repitch party lol.

What temps and how long at those temps have the bottles been being conditioned?

Rule of thumb 2 weeks above a constant 70F out of the sun.

Did you take any gravity readings? If so what were they?

If all else fails I would get some Muntons carb tabs and use those. I have had great luck with them and now use them for the small amount of bottles I do now that I keg. But lets hear what else is going on before we go all crazy...

BTW welcome to HBT OP!

 

[fdemt84]

No gravity readings. As far as the bottles go, they have been sitting 3 weeks under a towel out of sunlight (not that Germany gets much at this time of year) at a minimum 70 no more than 75 degs.
I am curious though, could the extra boiling the book called for be the reason that they didnt carbinate properly?

 

[Zamial]

did you chill them for 48 hours prior to opening one?

Is there any gas exchange when you open one? aka the "ppsssst"?

boiling has nothing to do with carbonation that I have ever heard.

What recipe did you use? what we need to know is how much extract you used for how much wort. Since you added in some sugars if this was a "BIG beer" with high ABV% it can take longer to carb...

 

[fdemt84]

I did the Franziskaner Hefe-Weisse beer. ABV vaule is only 5.2%. I chilled for about 12 hrs prior to opening. There was no ppsssst sound and almost no bubbles at all in the beer once poured.
I did a partial mash and used 5.75 lbs of extract. When we boiled we used Malto Dextrin not malt dextrose. sorry.

 

[brewmonk]

quote:
" We did not have the required amount of extract so we did the calculations and added 3/4 cup Malt dextrose and boiled for 10 additional minutes as stated."

quote:"When we boiled we used Malto Dextrin not malt dextrose. sorry."

Yeah, that (second quote above) was going to be my question, and on the positive side, you have given your beer 'great mouth feel'.

maltodextrin is NOT a simple sugar, and yeast can't metabolise it. so, therefore no "pffffft!"

you have before you a carbonation intervention necessitation. (TM)

 

[Zamial]

NVM The unfermentable sugar is to blame. I suggest getting some muntons carb tabs, opening the bottles add the tabs then recap.

You should be right as rain..

 

[nediver]

Should I pop the tops on all the bottles to add the sugar and yeast?

sorry I totally missed that it was bottled already

 

[fdemt84]

Thanks guys for the advice. I'll give that a try and see what happens. Happy Brewing all

 

[fdemt84]

I was doing some research on the carb drops, they all state for ounces. Living over in Germany all my bottles are half Liters or 3/4 L or even a couple 2 and 3 L bottles. Is there another way I should look at doing, to get a more percise conversion than just cutting drops in half, a 1/2 L is roughly 17 ounces and the drops Ive seen show for 12 ounces... thanks again for the help.

 

[MX1]

if it were me I would use the following as my guide.

1l =34oz = 12-15 tabs
.75l = 25oz = 8-10 tabs
.5l = 170z = 6-9 tabs

Depending on how carbed you want it. The tabs say 3-5 for every 350ml so unless I am way to tired, this would be a close guess.

Tim

 

[fdemt84]

Muntons carb tabs seem to be sold out every where until the 18th of Feb, has anyone used the Coopers Carb drops? Is there much of a difference?

 

[Indyking]

Muntons carb tabs seem to be sold out every where until the 18th of Feb, has anyone used the Coopers Carb drops? Is there much of a difference?

I have used it before. I think they are just crystallized table sugar. My first beers from the coopers kit were not very good but I don't think it was because of their carbonation drops. They work fine; you need just one drop for a 12oz or 2 for a 22-25 oz.

Just one thing… because you added sugar that were not fermented before, your final product, even after complete carbonation, will taste much sweeter than intended.

 

[fdemt84]

Thanks again guys, I found the munton's tabs at Kettletokeg.com I'll post back when its said and done hopefully everything turns out well. Happy brewing

 

[MX1]

so, could i just use sugar cubes then....

 

[fdemt84]

Just a quick up date. Got the Munton's tab' sin from www.kettletokeg.com (thanks to those guys they had it in stock and shipped without issues to APO, awesome people.) dropped the tabs in tonight, but ran into another issue in one beer. I found mold in the beer itself. Is that due to a bad seal? something else like contamination? But then that brings up my next question, I thought mold couldnt live in Alcohol? or am i looking at that wrong? Thanks again for more help. Happy Brewing

 

[devilishprune]

The alcohol content isn't high enough to stop mold from growing if it gets a strong enough foothold. It DOES help to counteract it somewhat. Just be more careful next time. It's likely that the mold got in there during the bottling process, or was already in the bottles. What was your sanitation like?

Maltodextrin isn't sweet, so you don't have to worry about that. Just to clarify, did you add malt, dextrose, or maltodextrin to your beer prior to bottling?

Boiling helps to put the sugar into solution that you can dissolve in the beer and also sterilizes it, so this may have been your problem with your infection. You were talking about boiling the sugar solution and not the beer, right?

 

[ezzieyguywuf]

Maybe I misread his first post, but I get the impression that he never primaried, i.e. just bottled after his boil.

 

[Bishop916]

As wet behind the ears as I am - I have never seen a boil after primary before bottle, if that is what I'm reading (*shrug), wouldnt that kill any yeast that was active in primary?

 

[devilishprune]

Yeah, you definitely don't want to do that. It would also boil off the ethanol (among other things).

 

[fdemt84]

devilishprune- we used maltodextrin in the beer. The sterlization on the bottles was good, thru a dishwasher with no soap. and quick dunk thru some star san sanatizer solution, just prior to bottling. Thats what led me to believe maybe it was a bad seal on the bottle since I am using pop tops instead of caps.
-Just checked the bottles and have good carbination bubbles going from the muntons, hopefully all is not lost with this batch will post again soon letting ya'll know.

Happy brewing

 

[MX1]

Not sure I caught the reason, but why did you bottle before you were able to prime? I am sure there was a reason stated somewhere, and I just missed it. Also you said about shipping to APO...where are you if you don tmind me asking. I to am at an APO.

Tim

 

[fdemt84]

I did prime first, then bottle.. just sugar we used for priming did not function the way we thought it would. So we had to resort to repriming with the muntons tabs.
MX1-Im over in Mannheim-Germany (Does your name indicate previous work assignment?)

 

[MX1]

Nah..its kinda my tag, first and last letters of my last name.
I am the Brussels-NATO area...

just a quick note table sugar should be boiled before added. Not only for sterilization, bit yeast have a hard time breaking down di-saccharides...boiling breaks down one of the bonds and makes it a mono-saccharides and those are very yummy to hungry yeast.

Next time you want to prime, just throw about 3/4 cups table sugar in a cup or so of water and boil for 15 min. add to your bottling bucket and rack on top of it, the bottle away.

Tim

 

[fdemt84]

Thanks tim, I know your area well enough, I work with some guys from up there. Thanks for the help, I just ordered my next brew should be here any time now, Fat tire. Wish me luck. Im sure I'll be looking or asking more questions soon.

Happy Brewing

 

[MX1]

Sweet1 LEt me know when yo will be around