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DublinOhioBrewer

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This may seem like a really stupid question but how do most of you expert Brewers clean your equipment? I bought a bucket of PBW and I have starsan obviously for sanitizing but the only things I've ever heard as far as cleaning, is filling up a 5 gallon bucket with water and mixing in the PBW and soaking everything... but to me that seems like an awful big waste of water? Is it really necessary to soak everything and does soaking really clean it the way it needs to be cleaned? Could I just make a gallon or two of solution, use a soft sponge and just wipe everything? Or is the soak the more important part? The sanitizing with starsan seems pretty straightforward, but it's how to effectively clean my equipment like my Brew Kettle and my fermenting carboy and my hoses Etc that I want to make sure I'm doing properly.

Any of you who saw my first post know that my first Brew didn't go so well so let's hope this weekend goes much better! I'll keep you all posted and thanks in advance for the feedback on cleaning because this is one of the things I worry about the most.

Cheers from Ohio!
 
Cleaning????? What's that?

I rarely use anything more than clean water and a soft brush or paper towel followed by starsan with the starsan only used on cold side contact equipment.

Can't say I have ever seen PBW. Never touched oxyanything outside of the store. I have never soaked anything other than recycled bottles.

Clean well and promptly, sanitize, allow to dry then sanitize cold side items before use. Replace damaged, scratched items that can no longer be cleaned.

No unintentional infections. Reasonable cleanliness, sanitation and precautions are all that's needed. There will be those that disagree strongly in the following posts. Find the point of cleanliness you are comfortable with and proceed. When it fails it is time to step up your game.
 
I rarely use PBW any longer. I clean my kettle with bar keepers friend, my fermenter with oxy clean free (make sure it’s the unscented ‘free’ variety), and usually just rinse hoses and such with very hot water immediately after use.

Every few brews I’ll break down the ball valve from my kettle and soak in PBW.

I don’t bottle that often but when I do I’ll usually soak the bottles in a light oxy solution and rinse very well before sanitation.

A good rinse is important for all equipment.

For star san, I typically make a small batch (2.5G) and keep a spray bottle of it handy to spray down buckets, etc.
 
I may be over doing it, but I clean everything before I brew and after.
Soaking in oxyclean and then a dip in star san has worked for me for a long time.
 
I clean thoroughly after use, then rinse and sanitize everything that will come in contact with post boiled wort before using

I started using easy clean as cleaner and sanitizer, cheaper then starsan and no foam.

Never had an infection
 
.......but it's how to effectively clean my equipment like my Brew Kettle and my fermenting carboy and my hoses Etc that I want to make sure I'm doing properly

As posted above, the key is "pre-boil" vs. "post-boil"
For pre-boil, everything needs to be reasonably clean and crud free.
Your post-boil equipment (fermenters, bottles, kegs, syphon, etc.) needs to be completely clean and sanitized.
 
Some things just clean up easier with soaking, like a fermenter the icky junk from the krausen ring comes off without scrubbing. ( better stuck on the fermentor than in the beer ) I tend to use one step, only because oxy unscented isn't in the stores I shop. As you gain experience you'll find what works best for you. :D
 
Mostly I use plain water and a rag. When cleaning promptly it does not seem to require aggressive chemicals. The exception is the heat exchanger (plate type in my case) which gets cleaned with PBW promptly after brewing and automatically includes the boil kettle, pump, and hoses. The boil kettle sometimes require a scouring pad (Dobbie is my choice). I have one dedicated to brewing so it does not get the oils from food in it. "New" bottles get soaked in TSP to remove the labels.
 
So, if i put a gallon of water and an oz of PBW in mt fermenter and shake it up and then wipe it clean is that sufficient cleaning? Or is soaking it the better way? I dont want to fill a 7 gallon fermonster with water if i dont have to.
 
So, if i put a gallon of water and an oz of PBW in mt fermenter and shake it up and then wipe it clean is that sufficient cleaning? Or is soaking it the better way? I dont want to fill a 7 gallon fermonster with water if i dont have to.

This is my method of soaking a fermentor in a PBW solution.
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It is just unnecessary to fill a carboy. The only part that will not rinse out after racking is the dried krausen ring. After a day soak I'll use the carboy brush for about two minutes and then jet rinse. I store fermentors sealed with Star San solution after they drip dry.
 
I don't know why everybody else is so down on PBW, but I love the stuff. It's like freakin' magic in a can, and I highly recommend it.

Sure, you can use other cleansers, and use a brush and a sponge and scrub all the baked-on crap off your boil kettles and fermentors by hand, but that's just way more work than I want to do, especially when there's absolutely no need to. I just mix up some PBW, toss it in, walk away for 15 or 20 minutes, come back, pour it out, and I'm done! (The reason for soaking isn't to get it more clean, it's just that if you soak it, the PBW does all the work for you and the dirt actually just disappears and you don't really need to do anything else)

Yes, making up a full batch of PBW to fill up a kettle/fermentor does seem like a lot of extra water, but something nobody ever actually points out is that you can generally re-use the same batch a number of times before it loses its potency and you actually need to throw it out. I typically mix mine up in a bucket and reuse it for 3 or 4 brews (or toss it if it's been sitting around for more than a couple of months, just on principle).

Regarding process, what I do is the following:
  1. Prior to brewing, do a quick rinse of all cold-side bits (transfer tubing, fermentor, etc) with sanitizer (if you've stored it right it should still be clean from last time, so no need to re-clean it). The boil kettle and anything that goes in it (chiller, etc) will be sanitized by the boiling water.
  2. Brew / cool / transfer / pitch / etc
  3. Fill boil kettle with PBW, walk away and let it sit for 15-20 minutes (occasionally longer.. just let it sit until the gunk is all gone from the sides of the kettle).
  4. Drain PBW into bucket (using the same transfer tubing as was used for the wort). Toss tubing and any other dirty equipment into the bucket of PBW.
  5. Fill boil kettle with sanitizer and let it sit for a couple of minutes
  6. Drain sanitizer into a different bucket using transfer tubing. Transfer equipment from PBW bucket to sanitizer bucket and let sit for a minute or two.
  7. Put everything away. Keep PBW and sanitizer in buckets for next time (using lids will also help it keep better).
After fermenting/racking is done I do basically the same process with the fermentor / racking cane / bottling bucket / etc. Run PBW through each of them in turn, followed by running sanitizer through each of them in the same order, then put everything away.

The whole process takes maybe half an hour, but most of that time is time I get to just walk away and do something else. No scrubbing, no labor. I actually find the whole process rather soothing in a way, not really like "cleaning" at all.

One thing to note: If you do use PBW (or any other alkaline cleaner) on stainless steel equipment, you should always finish them off with a rinse (or at least wipe-down) with Star-san or some other acid-based sanitizer. The reason is that the alkaline solution actually weakens the stainless patina on the steel and leaves it more susceptible to scratching/rusting than normal. However, coming in contact with the acidity of the sanitizer re-establishes the stainless coating and makes it good as new again, so there's no harm done in the end. The final rinse with sanitizer on all the non-stainless bits isn't technically necessary, but I've already got it on hand and it's easy enough, so why not? (It also helps to rinse off any remaining PBW residue which might dry onto the equipment and have to be washed off later..)

(On a related note, I use plastic carboys, and everybody always tells me "oh, you shouldn't use those, they get all scratched up and harbor bacteria!" How do you scratch up the inside of your carboys? You must be sticking something inside them like a brush or something to scratch them up! Well, just stop doing that! I've been using the same carboys for several years now and they're as good as new because all I do is pour PBW into them, let it sit, and pour out again. In addition to being really easy, it also means there's no way for them to get scratched up in the first place.)

Now, all that having been said, really the answer to the cleaning question is: Do whatever you like best, as long as it actually gets the stuff clean. Most normal people should have a good sense of whether a pot is clean or not (you've done dishes before, right?). There's no special level of uber-clean required for this stuff, you just need to make sure it's got all the residue and gunk off it. If your method, whatever it is, gets things "I would want to eat off that" clean, that should be good enough.

Sanitizing, on the other hand, is another issue. First, there's no point to sanitizing anything if it's not completely clean first. It just won't work, no matter how much sanitizer you use. Second, to have full effectiveness, sanitizer needs to stay in contact with all surfaces (that is, immersed) for at least 60 seconds (preferably 2 minutes or more, just to be sure). After that, you should ideally also let it dry completely without rinsing. Star-san and similar sanitizers actually produce a thin antibacterial protective coating when they dry which helps to keep surfaces sanitized even after they're dry and sitting around in the air. If you rinse it first, you're washing off that extra protection.

Anyway, got a bit longer than I really intended (sorry), but that's my $0.02.. Hope it's useful! :)
 
So, if i put a gallon of water and an oz of PBW in mt fermenter and shake it up and then wipe it clean is that sufficient cleaning? Or is soaking it the better way? I dont want to fill a 7 gallon fermonster with water if i dont have to.

You don’t need a gallon of water OR an oz of PBW! Use a little oxy clean - WAY cheaper, add some water, swirl around and if you have stuck on gunk - wipe with a soft sponge.

And rinse with hot water...rinse well.

If you clean your equipment right away there is no real reason the soak. Soak is really only needed when something is caked or hard to get off.

I have never felt the need to soak my fermonster.

My wife has a really nice Dutch oven and she had some baked on “stuff” which she couldn’t clean. I put a little hot water and soaked with PBW overnight...good as new! My flask, which I direct heat on the stove top, had some baked on “stuff” on the bottom...soaked in PBW and good as new!

PBW has a great place but if you clean right away there is no real god reason to use an expensive cleaner, IMO.

I have even used a fragrance free detergent (I think it’s 7th generation) for cleaning but again - rinsing is key so you get off the residue.
 
Do you clean them right after use? If so, is that it? Or do you clean them again before a new batch and before sanitizing?
I jet rinse after harvesting yeast. Clean with PBW the same day or a little later. Dry the fermentor in a rack then store sealed after
Do you clean them right after use? If so, is that it? Or do you clean them again before a new batch and before sanitizing?

I jet rinse after harvesting the yeast. Might clean the same day or a little later. After cleaning let the carboy drip dry in a rack and store sealed with about a cup of Star San solution. I sanitize again before the next use but no cleaning.
 
Hot water and maybe paper towels right after use. The only thing I really use cleaner for is kegs and beer line. Sometimes the fermentor if it has built up beerstone. The kettle gets dish soap. As long as you don't have built up gunk you can sanitize.
 
All valves get broken down after every brew....ball valves are not sanitary and need to be disassembled. I just rinse then well with water and store them disassembled in a bucket.

Fermenter - CIP spray ball using 2% caustic (NaOH), rinse with water, CIP with Saniclean (non-foaming) for 10 minutes
Kettle - Just use a SS safe scrubby and water
Mashtun - Rinse out with water
Hoses - Rinse with water
Pumps - breakdown pump heads every brew, clean with warm water
Plate Chiller - back flush with 2% caustic for 30 minutes, forward flush with water to rinse caustic, forward flush with Starsan for 5 minutes. Every 3 brews I bake in the over at 400F for an hour then follow post-brew procedures.

All cold side parts get Starsan or Saniclean on brew day.

You can get granulated NaOH from DudaDiesel at a very reasonable price if you want to use caustic. I mix about 20% TSP in my caustic as a detergent.
 
So, if i put a gallon of water and an oz of PBW in mt fermenter and shake it up and then wipe it clean is that sufficient cleaning? Or is soaking it the better way? I dont want to fill a 7 gallon fermonster with water if i dont have to.

This is very similar to what I do.

I'll dump the trub and crud from the fermenter, then spray it out. At that point, it's mostly clean, but I don't trust it. So I'll put a scoop (an ounce) of PBW in the fermenter, add about a gallon of water, dissolve the PBW, and use a paper towel to clean the inside. This is one of the advantages to the large-mouth fermenters--you can reach your arm inside and give everything a good wipe with PBW water.

I'll then remove the spigot, soak that in a small container of PBW water, and then wash around the spigot opening. I only use paper towel as it won't scratch the plastic. I then rinse it out good, and invert to drain.

When it's time to brew, I'll rinse it out a couple of times w/ Star-San. I'll attach the spigot, put a gallon or so of Star-San in the fermenter, and make sure my spigot doesn't have any leaks. It's worked for me.
 
If water is in tight supply, substitute a small batch of PBW at the proper ratio and with warm or hot water as recommended in the instructions. I second that the point of a PBW soak is to eliminate the elbow grease or break down stubborn stuff (even stuff that has nothing to do with brewing like that black stuff from the oven comes off with an overnight soak and a little scrubbing). I’m a HUGE fan of PBW and the way it gets baked on grease off everything nice that my wife leaves on the stove while she fries things. Remember to rinse everything off promptly and thoroughly.

I also use Star-San for sanitizing (again the proper ratio, but COLD water per the instructions) and second the “put a small batch in a spray bottle” recommendation. No need to make 5gal bathes and soak. Most things I just spray thoroughly and I’ve never had an infection of any sort either. I do make a gallon of it for bottling day and soak the siphon, racking cane, bottle caps, tubing, bottling bucket, etc, anything that will be in contact with the finished beer.

When I do make big batches of either I also store and reuse with no issues to date, though I seal my stuff (if buckets with lids work - that’s even easier). I am more likely to make fresh SS than PBW for the next batch because cleanliness can be achieved many ways but sanitation requires active SS or another sanitizer and cold side errors are less forgiving than anything pre-boil.

I also sanitize everything after brewing because I’ve found SS dries things more quickly and seems to prevent hard water stains somehow. There’s never a moldy smell on equipment I sanitized even in my very humid climate where it seems anything and everything can get a musty or moldy smell in short order.

Clean well after brewing and store clean and all you’ll require on brew day is a blast off with water for everything plus sanitation for cold side equipment. If you’re worried or have extra time feel free to re-wash the cold side stuff prior to sanitizing on brew day, but rewashing hot side stuff is generally a waste of time.

Good luck with the second batch!
 
All valves get broken down after every brew....ball valves are not sanitary and need to be disassembled. I just rinse then well with water and store them disassembled in a bucket.

Fermenter - CIP spray ball using 2% caustic (NaOH), rinse with water, CIP with Saniclean (non-foaming) for 10 minutes
Kettle - Just use a SS safe scrubby and water
Mashtun - Rinse out with water
Hoses - Rinse with water
Pumps - breakdown pump heads every brew, clean with warm water
Plate Chiller - back flush with 2% caustic for 30 minutes, forward flush with water to rinse caustic, forward flush with Starsan for 5 minutes. Every 3 brews I bake in the over at 400F for an hour then follow post-brew procedures.

All cold side parts get Starsan or Saniclean on brew day.

You can get granulated NaOH from DudaDiesel at a very reasonable price if you want to use caustic. I mix about 20% TSP in my caustic as a detergent.

Interesting thought on ball valves. I wondered about whether my cleaning process was getting mine clean so I broke a couple down last weekend. I was surprised to see that they were spotless inside!

Here's how I clean them:
After cleaning my kettle, I heat the leftover RO water in it to about 190 degrees. I then connect my pump and whirlpool arm and whirlpool the the hot water for about 5 minutes. I open and close the valve on the pump about 10 times and then run it half open. After that I drain the hot water from the kettle into my MLT, again cycling the kettle valve open and closed about 10 times. Do the same thing to drain the MLT and its valve and I'm done.

The secret it to cycle the valves open and closed. I then store them half open so that there's no area sealed off to capture moisture and, perhaps, grow mold.
 
For me it depends on what I am cleaning. I just rinse out my mash tun, then wipe with a rag. Every once in a while I clean the valve. My boil kettle gets the crud scrubbed off with a nylon scrubbie. Rinsed well and returned to the stand.

I fill my Better Bottles with water and Oxyclean to soak for a day or so. I then rinse, put a washcloth inside, swirl it around, remove then rinse again.

Hoses get rinsed immediately after use. The only ones that get soaked are my blow off tubes.

I only sanitize items to be used on the cold side and just before use. I hear of people that sanitize then store their equipment. To me that is a waste of sanitizer and effort since it will no longer be sanitary by the time of the next brew day.
 
PBW is great for cleaning the vessels and fermenters. I clean and rinse everything at the end of brew day, then dry it and store it, and it’s ready to use next time. Next brew day, everything is clean and ready to use with the exception of everything post boil....everything after the boil must be sanitized with starsan (or boiling wort) before use
 

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