Classic rookie mistake - did I ruin my first batch?

[cjens19]

Bubbling has slowed down quite a bit overnight. Now it's about once every 10 seconds. Is something wrong? I was thinking the bubbling would go crazy for a few days, like it was last night.

 

[boydster]

If you are still keeping it in ice water to cool it, stop adding ice. It's normal for fermentation to slow down after it peaks, but not knowing what strain of yeast you are using or what the actual fermentation temp is means we're flying blind with respect to answering your question directly. If yeast gets too cold, it stops fermenting and drops out. When fermentation ends, the yeast stop fermenting and drop out. See the similarity? So either it's too cold, or the yeast is running out of sugar. Either way, warming it up will encourage the yeast to finish the job and not stall early. After the first 3-ish days of a healthy fermentation, you don't have to worry so much about off-flavors from fermenting warm.

Now, I also just read the entire thread - I really should have done that before, I know, but I didn't. You didn't kill yeast by adding it to the wort at 90. You killed yeast by not rehydrating. Not a big deal, people do it all the time and debate whether it affected the outcome of the beer, so don't add that to your worry list yet. Pitching at 90 is only a problem because it encourages the yeast to start working very fast, and once fermentation kicks off the yeast generate even more heat, meaning it can be hard to get the temperature down to a range where off-flavors aren't being produced. Yeast love warm temperatures, up to a point. They don't die at 90, they don't even die at 100. Clayton Cone says to rehydrate Lallemand (Danstar) yeast between 95 and 105. They are happy at those temps.

Fermenting in a room that is 66-68 means your fermentation temperature is likely going to be in the 70s during high krausen. Some yeasts are OK in that range. Most ale yeasts throw a lot of esters when they get that warm, and some of them can be unpleasant. As the temperature gets even warmer, you could run into fusel alcohols being produced. Those can smell something like rubbing alcohol and leave you with a hell of a headache. There are yeasts that make excellent beer with temps being in the 70's and 80's, but those yeasts generally aren't included in a kit like the one you purchased, so I would be willing to bet you have a yeast like Munton's or Cooper's ale yeast or something similar and not a Saison yeast.

Sanitation, temp control, pitch rate, and patience. Those are the things to hone in on for your next few batches. Get those 4 things under control and you will consistently make good beer. Temp control means, at the very least, using that stick on thermometer you ordered and the swamp cooler you made to maintain a stable FERMENTATION (not ambient) temp that is on the low end of the ideal range for the yeast strain you are using for the first few days of fermentation. Pitch rate means checking with a pitch calc (brewersfriend, mrmalty, yeastcalc, etc) and if you are using dry yeast, rehydrating it properly. If you aren't rehydrating, you are killing around 50% of the yeast, so you need to basically double the suggested pitch that one of the calcs tells you.

Check out this write up from Chris White about what is happening with the yeast during the different stages of fermentation:
http://www.brewgeeks.com/the-life-cycle-of-yeast.html

 

[danorocks17]

I'm with everyone else. not using sanitizer probably won't be a problem, but pitching the yeast that hot will be. I learned that lesson the hard way hahaha. Try to get it down to 70 or lower if you can. How are you controlling your ferm temps?

 

[robertus]

Man, now I'm also reading that it's not good to add your LME until flameout (which I take to mean as just at the end of boil)? But these instructions had me add it just as my initial 1.5 gal of water got to a boil...

I don't think anyone reads the boards before their first batch . Don't get too discouraged. I botched all of these things (and more!) on my first go, and things turned out okay. While not great, or even "good," the first brew was certainly drinkable, and I learned a lot from it.

A couple of batches later, and I'm able to crank out some very good beers relatively quickly - my brew day on Sunday morning was all of 2 hours. Easy like, uh, Sunday morning.

Read the boards a bit, take notes, make adjustments for your next time out. Even if your only takeaway is "everything but the recipe and hop schedule is terrible in these instructions," that's a good lesson.

 

[cjens19]

Holy cow, so much good information. Brain is a bit over-loaded! haha. I have not been adding ice at all. Initially, on brew night after I closed the fermenter up, I did add a bag of ice to the swamp cooler to try and get temp down prior to fermentation kicking off. The ice melted overnight on Saturday, and I added more room temp water Sunday morning to create a water buffer (in the hopes of maintaining more stable temps). I wonder if it slowed down this morning because it got too cold on our main level. We have shut our heat off and it got rather cold last night in central Iowa, so my main level was a crisp 64 degrees when I woke up this morning. Hoping that's not too cold. I haven't removed any water from the swamp cooler, so it may be that the water is even colder than the air temperature? Not sure, it did feel pretty cold when i touched it.

What's the rule with movement of the fermenter while fermentation is happening? Like, is it best to leave it alone 100% and not move it at all, or is it OK if say I have to move it to another room for better temp control?

Hopefully my stick-on fermometer is in soon, but I guess at this point I'll have to ride this one out blind

So I guess at this point, my bubbling has slowed down quite possibly due to temps dropping to lower to mid 60's? Should I risk trying to warm it up a bit? Or at least get the heat back on in my house to maintain around 68?

Thanks all, you guys have been superb.

 

[boydster]

Do you have a thermometer you can stick into the water to get a reading? It's ok to move the bucket if you need to, I wouldn't worry much about that. Just warm it up 2-3 degrees and try to hold it steady there if you can.

Another great brewing accessory from your local pet store: an aquarium heater. Most times, you need ice in a swamp cooler to keep things cool. Sometimes, you'll find you need a little heat instead - the aquarium heater in the water bath works perfectly for that.

 

[wilserbrewer]

While likely too late for this batch, I am guessing you may have chilled the wort quickly enough to avoid off flavors associated with a "hot" ferment. You likely overchilled by adding too much ice, and while not ideal, one can reasonably assume the water outside the fermenter in the swamp cooler is reasonably close to the temperature of the fermenting beer.

Moving forward, I feel it is always best to delay pitching the yeast until your wort is at an acceptable range, say roughly mid sixties depending on yeast strain. Also noteworthy is that desirable results can be obtained at the lower end of fermentation temperatures, BUT some ale yeast activity can slow or stall if the temps are pushed lower, roughly below 60 degrees.

Adding a frozen water bottle or two can easily drop the swamp cooler a few degrees, be gentle, fluctuating temps can confuse the yeast....steady is good.

The yeast is most temperature sensitive during the initial phase of fermentation up to high kruesen, and once fermentation has peaked it is not as critical, usually the first several days, after that the flavor profile is typically set and temperature control is not nearly as critical.

 

[NickTheGreat]

Howdy neighbor! Is your LHBS BeerCrazy? If so (or if not) I'd recommend going in there some evening and chat with them. They are very knowledgeable and most of them are patient with n00bs.

 

[cjens19]

Yeah I have a floating thermometer that came with the kit, I should have been using that in the swamp cooler, DOH!

Yes, local store is BeerCrazy, only a few minutes away from my house. The 2 guys I've talked to in there have been pretty awesome. I'll be going back in probably tomorrow to pick up a hydrometer and a longer metal spoon.

I'll be home in about 2 hours, I'll do a temp read of the swamp water and see if I need to get it back up to 67ish.

Thanks guys!!

 

[wilserbrewer]

I'll be home in about 2 hours, I'll do a temp read of the swamp water and see if I need to get it back up to 67ish.

Thanks guys!!

Just guessing here, but it seems your fermentation peaked some time ago and is now slowing or perhaps even stopped, my guess is that the show is over and the horse has left town. Making temperature adjustments at this point won't really impact the final product. If your room temperature is b/w 65 - 70, you can remove your fermenter from the swamp cooler and just let it sit for 2-3 weeks....RDWHAHB, ya did well!

 

[cjens19]

Just guessing here, but it seems your fermentation peaked some time ago and is now slowing or perhaps even stopped, my guess is that the show is over and the horse has left town. Making temperature adjustments at this point won't really impact the final product. If your room temperature is b/w 65 - 70, you can remove your fermenter from the swamp cooler and just let it sit for 2-3 weeks....RDWHAHB, ya did well!

I'm guessing it peaked sometime Sunday night/Monday morning. I was gone from Sunday morning until last night, and when I got home last night it was bubbling about every 2 seconds. That seems like a pretty quick ferment, so I do worry that it got too cold last night and it stopped fermenting. Hopefully when I get home in about an hour, the temp will have risen on my main level to around 66 or so, and the bubbling has picked up some speed.

If the yeast got stopped prematurely due to cold temps, does that mean the batch is bogarted? Or will it continue to work, just at a slower pace? I guess it probably depends on the activity in the airlock eh?

Thanks man

 

[boydster]

If the yeast got stopped prematurely due to cold temps, does that mean the batch is bogarted?

No. Once you warm it up, they will continue until they run out of sugars they can metabolize.

 

[cjens19]

No. Once you warm it up, they will continue until they run out of sugars they can metabolize.

Oh awesome!! I'll get the heat turned on so it hopefully stabilizes around 68. Dang Iowa spring weather!!!

 

[wilserbrewer]

Oh awesome!! I'll get the heat turned on so it hopefully stabilizes around 68. Dang Iowa spring weather!!!

FYI, I think your fermentation is likely done, or close to it.
RDWHAHB

 

[cjens19]

FYI, I think your fermentation is likely done, or close to it.
RDWHAHB

After only about 2.5 days?? I have my heat on now. Going to try raising it a few degrees and see if bubbles speed up. Water currently at 64 (same temp as house) and bubbles about 2 x per minute. Ill bring it up to 67 and see if it speeds up.

Thanks!


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[boydster]

2.5 days with a warm start isn't unreasonable. Yeast at warm temps work very fast. They just don't make the tastiest beer that way usually.

 

[cjens19]

2.5 days with a warm start isn't unreasonable. Yeast at warm temps work very fast. They just don't make the tastiest beer that way usually.

Well for my next batch, ill definitely have swamp cooler and ice ready so i can cool the wort down to ferment temp prior to pitch, regardless of instructions. Idc if it takes a couple extra days to ferment, id rather have better brew than quicker.


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[wilserbrewer]

After only about 2.5 days?? I have my heat on now. Going to try raising it a few degrees and see if bubbles speed up. Water currently at 64 (same temp as house) and bubbles about 2 x per minute. Ill bring it up to 67 and see if it speeds up.

Thanks!

All I'm trying to tell you is that at this point the bird has flown. Don't continue to fret and raise the heat a couple degrees, count airlock bubbles etc. etc.....

It's over Johnny, the bus left the station. Go ahead and warm it up a few degrees, but don't be disappointed when nothing happens.

Cheers!

 

[cjens19]

All I'm trying to tell you is that at this point the bird has flown. Don't continue to fret and raise the heat a couple degrees, count airlock bubbles etc. etc.....



It's over Johnny, the bus left the station. Go ahead and warm it up a few degrees, but don't be disappointed when nothing happens.



Cheers!

Im already planning on being disappointed with my first batch the next one should go better!


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[brew_ny]

Im already planning on being disappointed with my first batch the next one should go better!


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it will be beer and you will drink it your brews will get better and better

all the best

S_M

 

[boxofjibboo]

Even after the initial fermentation has been completed, your yeast can still eat up any extra off flavors for the next week. Keep the temps between 65-75 for the remainder of fermentation and leave it for 2 weeks (at least) before bottling. You wouldn't want to have exploding beer bottles cause the yeast wasn't truly finished.

 

[lowtones84]

Also, you may not be disappointed at all. All of the advice given is great advice, but many people have made the same mistakes you have and made great beer. My first beer was an extract IPA that I pitched at around 80F and fermented in a closet that was close to 70F ambient temp. I don't know how, but it really did turn out great, and everyone else I had try it agreed.

 

[wilserbrewer]

I don't think you will be disappointed. Best not to think that way, as Charlie said, nothing ruins beer more than worrying.

Ignore it for 2 -3 weeks, bottle it up and please report back 2 weeks after bottling.
Enjoy


Wilserbrewer
http://biabbags.webs.com/

 

[cjens19]

I don't think you will be disappointed. Best not to think that way, as Charlie said, nothing ruins beer more than worrying.

Ignore it for 2 -3 weeks, bottle it up and please report back 2 weeks after bottling.
Enjoy


Wilserbrewer
Biabags.webs.com

Awesome, will do. Even though the instructions say 1 week to ferment and then another week in bottles, I'll ignore that and play it safe. I've always wondered though, how do we know once it's done bottling? Do we just wait a couple weeks and then just pop one open and give er the ol college try? Since I have brown bottles (doesn't everyone?) I'm not sure if there's an ocular test that we can give the beer to determine when it's finished bottling and ready for consumption.

Saw all of the "did I ruin my batch" posts in the wiki. I LOL'd. I also felt like a giant noob. Haha. This place is great, community seems pretty awesome.

 

[gregfreemyer]

I think your biggest issue is going to slowing down enough. Good beer takes time. 5 weeks from brew day to drinking I consider fast. 10 weeks for me is about optimal, but I've seen people post that it just keeps getting better and better all the way to the one year mark at least.

I had a Fort Collins Maibock recently. They say they brew it in the fall and condition it all winter for release in the spring. And that's a commercial brewery where time is money.

And if you did do something wrong that caused off-flavors, letting it sit for a couple extra months, just may clean it up enough to get rid of the off-flavor.

I know your anxious to taste the beer. After 1 week you might want to rack(siphon) a couple bottles worth, add priming sugar,etc.

Then repeat at 2 weeks and then at 3 weeks bottle all you have left.

Give it at least 2 weeks in the bottle, then drink your batch slowly over the course of a few months. The beer will continue to condition in the bottle so you will likely see the beer just get better and better with time.

 

[cjens19]

I think your biggest issue is going to slowing down enough. Good beer takes time. 5 weeks from brew day to drinking I consider fast. 10 weeks for me is about optimal, but I've seen people post that it just keeps getting better and better all the way to the one year mark at least.

I had a Fort Collins Maibock recently. They say they brew it in the fall and condition it all winter for release in the spring. And that's a commercial brewery where time is money.

And if you did do something wrong that caused off-flavors, letting it sit for a couple extra months, just may clean it up enough to get rid of the off-flavor.

I know your anxious to taste the beer. After 1 week you might want to rack(siphon) a couple bottles worth, add priming sugar,etc.

Then repeat at 2 weeks and then at 3 weeks bottle all you have left.

Give it at least 2 weeks in the bottle, then drink your batch slowly over the course of a few months. The beer will continue to condition in the bottle so you will likely see the beer just get better and better with time.

Well, now that I know that there's no limit to the amount of time it can be bottled, then I have no qualms with letting it sit for a while. If that means it'll be better beer, then heck yeah! I may have to try a bottle here and there once I hit the 2-3 week mark, just to use as a barometer of where the batch is at. Once I think it's drinkable, I'll start handing out bottles to friends and slowly drinking them myself

What I'm probably most excited about is brewing my 2nd batch right after I rack my first batch. But since it will take me a while to get all the bottles emptied again, will it hurt to leave my 2nd batch sit in the fermenter for a month or 2? Not sure if that's ideal or not...

 

[SlickTX]

But since it will take me a while to get all the bottles emptied again, will it hurt to leave my 2nd batch sit in the fermenter for a month or 2? Not sure if that's ideal or not...

Your LHBS has more bottles for sale. Just sayin'.

 

[gregfreemyer]

What I'm probably most excited about is brewing my 2nd batch right after I rack my first batch. But since it will take me a while to get all the bottles emptied again, will it hurt to leave my 2nd batch sit in the fermenter for a month or 2? Not sure if that's ideal or not...

In general time is your friend. On the other hand only having one set of bottles would really cramp my style. I bought a case for my first brew. Since then I keep some of the bottles from commercial beers I buy. I really like the Sam Adams bottles. I rinse them immediately, then just take the labels off at my leisure. 2 years into this hobby I have about 8 cases worth of bottles.

If my wife has a complaint about this hobby it's the bottles I leave around waiting to accumulate enough to mess with. Last week I had almost a case of clean bottles sitting on the dining room table. When it hit 24 I got motivated to go get a empty case from the garage and fill it up.

 

[cjens19]

In general time is your friend. On the other hand only having one set of bottles would really cramp my style. I bought a case for my first brew. Since then I keep some of the bottles from commercial beers I buy. I really like the Sam Adams bottles. I rinse them immediately, then just take the labels off at my leisure. 2 years into this hobby I have about 8 cases worth of bottles.

If my wife has a complaint about this hobby it's the bottles I leave around waiting to accumulate enough to mess with. Last week I had almost a case of clean bottles sitting on the dining room table. When it hit 24 I got motivated to go get a empty case from the garage and fill it up.

LOL and the wife is basically the main reason I'm trying to keep as little equipment as possible. We're currently in a townhome and we don't have very much space in the garage for this new hobby of mine. But I'm planning on constructing some extra shelves to make better use of the corner of the garage I'm using for this. That should give me enough room to get some extra bottles on hand. Yep, my LHBS sells cases of empty brown bottles. I have about a case of Sam Adams empties from back when I used to drink that, and a case of LHBS bottles. Since the only commercial beer I buy anymore is Guiness, I'll probably just pick up another case or 2 of bottles from BeerCrazy

So to clean out the bottles prior to racking (hopefully this Sunday), do I soak them in a b-brite solution, or do I use Iodophor? Still trying to figure out what to use for what. I have a spray bottle of Iodophor for quick sanitizing, but I've read that starsan is probably the way to go since it has a longer half-life. So I'll pick up some starsan this week when I go back to beercrazy. Just wondering what the b-brite is for. Can I just soak the bottles in that, rinse them, and let them air-dry on my fast racks?

Thanks guys

 

[boydster]

My bottles get a thorough rinse when I empty them, and StarSan right before I fill them back up with more beer. If yours seem dirty or have any gunk stuck to them, use the B-Brite first.