Classic rookie mistake - did I ruin my first batch?

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Go to your local fish store they have them for tanks


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pat1268 said:
Go to your local fish store they have them for tanks


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And these can stay on the fermenter right? For good? Or at least as long as adhesive sticks? Thanks!


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cjens19 said:
Well I've had some ice in the keg tub now for about an hour. Is it safe to just leave that in there and let it melt tonight? Will that get it too cold? Once it's melted it should get to room temp and stay there, but I don't want to get it too cold. Man, there's really a lot to this! I love it! I'm not expecting a drinkable first batch after following these crappy instructions. But 30 bucks for a learning experience isn't too bad. Maybe by batch 3 or 4 I'll have it down enough to make a decent brew ;)

Thanks all. Appreciate the tips.
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One of the great things about this pastime is that most likely, you will get a drinkable first batch. It's amazing how resilient beer is.

I think brewing is like chess, in a way: there are enough complexities to keep you busy for the rest of your life if you want to delve into them, but you can learn enough in a very short time to play a respectable game and enjoy yourself - or brew a respectable and enjoyable beer.
 
troy2000 said:
One of the great things about this pastime is that mostly likely, you will get a drinkable first batch. It's amazing how resilient beer is.



I think brewing is like chess, in a way: there are enough complexities to keep you busy for the rest of your life if you want to delve into them, but you can learn enough in a very short time to play a respectable game and enjoy yourself - or brew a respectable and enjoyable beer.
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Heh, i like that. A hobby that has endless outcomes and possibilities. Sure beats the heck out of anything else ive been doing lately! Well, besides 18 holes when its 70 and sunny! :)


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cjens19 said:
Whats the best way to monitor temp without opening the fermenter? Ive got an adhesive fermometer on order from amazon that i was hoping to stick on the fermenter at about the 4 gallon mark. Will that be accurate enough? Im envisioning the type of stick-on thermometer I used to have on my fishtank. But im guessing the plastic bucket will prevent the reading from being very accurate. Are there better ways?


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You know what? Don't even worry about it on this batch, if the ambient temp's in your laundry room are what you say they are. Stick the bucket in a corner, and let the yeasties do their thing. Typically a batch will ramp up a few degrees when it first starts going strong, then slowly taper back down to match ambient temp's.

You're getting a lot of well-meaning and generally sound advice, but I think the guys are pounding a little hard on the temperature issues. I brew in the middle of the Mojave Desert, and my beer comes out quite drinkable. ;)

What specific yeast are you using? If you know that, you can look up the data sheets on it and see what the recommended pitching and fermenting temperatures are, instead of following rules of thumb. And if you let us know, members who have used that yeast can chime in with their personal experience...
 
This is all really good advice and it's great that you're asking a lot of questions, but I have to say it: RDWHAHB (Relax, Don't Worry, Have a Home Brew) although you may have to settle for a commercial beer for now.

In all likelihood your batch will be just fine. Yeast actually love warm temps, but that doesn't produce the best beer with most yeast strains. Pitching at 88F certainly is not ideal, but I'm confident it will be fine. I did something around that with my first few batches because I didn't know any better, and they were all good. Not the best beer I've made, but I was still proud of them and enjoyed drinking them!

Welcome to the hobby :mug:
 
Man, now I'm also reading that it's not good to add your LME until flameout (which I take to mean as just at the end of boil)? But these instructions had me add it just as my initial 1.5 gal of water got to a boil. It didn't scorch or burn, so I'm not sure if it will end up being a mistake, but dang, these instructions seem SHADY! It also says to bottle after just a week. That seems very soon! I'm going to get a hydrometer next week. That way I can bottle when the proper FG has been reached. Did I mess up by not taking an OG reading? The kit didn't come with a hydrometer like I assumed it would.
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1. Just about every recipe I've used instructs to add extract at the beginning of a 60 minute boil. Some people like to add it later to prevent it from becoming carmelized at the bottom; once carmelize the yeast don't use it as well and it can result in less abv and a residual sweetness. Also if you're going for a lighter style the beer might end up a bit darker than what you were shooting for.

2. OG is mostly used to calculate the abv, you can enter in all your ingredients into an online recipe creator to get a theoretical OG, most of them default to 5 gallon volumes so be sure to change it to whatever your volume was.

3. Most beers are not ready until after 2 weeks, you may have a fast working yeast though, 1 week is not totally unreasonable. To do things right you need the gravity to be the same for 3 days straight. It won't hurt things to leave it in the fermentor a bit longer than your kit recommends.

It sounds like you bought a very simple kit targeted at beginners. I would think in such a kit you would have an extremely hardy (near idiot proof) ale yeast. Though for future references you want to pitch an ale near whatever your fermentation temperature will be.

Don't worry you'll most likely have something drinkable in 2 to 4 weeks.
 
Bravo! Excellent troll thread cjen (aka pat)! Actually an ok discussion and good advice for a troll thread :mug: Your homebrew vocabulary and apparent knowledge is way to big to be a first time brewer. You havent posted on any other threads, you and "pat" are posting 1 minute apart, both on your "ipad using homebrew". And pat miraculously starts a new troll thread "abv too low" that written in the same context as your first post. You both joined the same day, not posting on other threads. You both bought a kit from Monster Brew and your profiles have zero information. Sorry, just not buying it.

But I digress....its way better than other troll threads I have seen. And you have sparked some decent conversation, so its not all bad. Just hope your doing it for the right reasons my brew brother and not to be an arse.

No harm, no foul.

Cheers! :mug:
 
Ha! I think I just got sucked into the other thread... :tank:

So are you the third of the multiple personalities of this same individual? Great first post :D
 
reallySMH said:
Bravo! Excellent troll thread cjen (aka pat)! Actually an ok discussion and good advice for a troll thread :mug: Your homebrew vocabulary and apparent knowledge is way to big to be a first time brewer. You havent posted on any other threads, you and "pat" are posting 1 minute apart, both on your "ipad using homebrew". And pat miraculously starts a new troll thread "abv too low" that written in the same context as your first post. You both joined the same day, not posting on other threads. You both bought a kit from Monster Brew and your profiles have zero information. Sorry, just not buying it.

But I digress....its way better than other troll threads I have seen. And you have sparked some decent conversation, so its not all bad. Just hope your doing it for the right reasons my brew brother and not to be an arse.

No harm, no foul.

Cheers! :mug:
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Sorry, not a troll. And yes, this is my first brew. But i have done research so I may not be as green as other first-timers, but I definitely realize I have an immensely long ways to go. I haven't posted on any other threads because I just joined last night while I was mid-brew and worried that my first batch would be ruined from not sanitizing properly.

But I guess I could see how it seems trollish. Once you have experienced enough trolling, I suppose any thread could show troll-like qualities. But not me sir. I'd like to think I'm as genuine as they come.

Thanks to all for the great advice. Got my fermenter sitting in a swamp cooler. Ice melted overnight but the leftover water was very cold, so I topped off the swamp cooler with a couple gals of room temp water. Thinking the water will provide a nice barrier from too many temp fluctuations.

Now we play the waiting game :)
 
boydster said:
Ha! I think I just got sucked into the other thread... :tank:

So are you the third of the multiple personalities of this same individual? Great first post :D
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Nope sorry, cjens19 is my only persona I'm afraid. See my post on Twitter at jensonc for proof :)
 
boydster said:
I believe ya, congrats on your first batch! :mug:
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Thanks man. Nervous that it won't turn out, but that's just the perfectionist in me. Looking forward to subsequent batches though! Once I learn the process better, I think the brew days will be a lot of fun. I was running around like a nervous nelly yesterday, afraid I would miss something. Haha. But I'm sure that gets better with experience.
 
B-brite isn't rated as a sanitizer, but based on its ingredients and the product of the reaction that is formed when mixed with water, it should work as a sanitizer. You basically make hydrogen peroxide when you dissolve it in water, which is very hostile to bacteria.




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Never heard the term troll before anyone care to define for me?


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Just got home from being gone for about 24 hours and my beer is doing science!!! Air escaping about once every 2 seconds. Such a proud papa! :mug: Smells pretty delicious too :)

2014-04-28 19.26.51.jpg
 
Bubbling has slowed down quite a bit overnight. Now it's about once every 10 seconds. Is something wrong? I was thinking the bubbling would go crazy for a few days, like it was last night.
 
If you are still keeping it in ice water to cool it, stop adding ice. It's normal for fermentation to slow down after it peaks, but not knowing what strain of yeast you are using or what the actual fermentation temp is means we're flying blind with respect to answering your question directly. If yeast gets too cold, it stops fermenting and drops out. When fermentation ends, the yeast stop fermenting and drop out. See the similarity? :D So either it's too cold, or the yeast is running out of sugar. Either way, warming it up will encourage the yeast to finish the job and not stall early. After the first 3-ish days of a healthy fermentation, you don't have to worry so much about off-flavors from fermenting warm.

Now, I also just read the entire thread - I really should have done that before, I know, but I didn't. You didn't kill yeast by adding it to the wort at 90. You killed yeast by not rehydrating. Not a big deal, people do it all the time and debate whether it affected the outcome of the beer, so don't add that to your worry list yet. Pitching at 90 is only a problem because it encourages the yeast to start working very fast, and once fermentation kicks off the yeast generate even more heat, meaning it can be hard to get the temperature down to a range where off-flavors aren't being produced. Yeast love warm temperatures, up to a point. They don't die at 90, they don't even die at 100. Clayton Cone says to rehydrate Lallemand (Danstar) yeast between 95 and 105. They are happy at those temps.

Fermenting in a room that is 66-68 means your fermentation temperature is likely going to be in the 70s during high krausen. Some yeasts are OK in that range. Most ale yeasts throw a lot of esters when they get that warm, and some of them can be unpleasant. As the temperature gets even warmer, you could run into fusel alcohols being produced. Those can smell something like rubbing alcohol and leave you with a hell of a headache. There are yeasts that make excellent beer with temps being in the 70's and 80's, but those yeasts generally aren't included in a kit like the one you purchased, so I would be willing to bet you have a yeast like Munton's or Cooper's ale yeast or something similar and not a Saison yeast.

Sanitation, temp control, pitch rate, and patience. Those are the things to hone in on for your next few batches. Get those 4 things under control and you will consistently make good beer. Temp control means, at the very least, using that stick on thermometer you ordered and the swamp cooler you made to maintain a stable FERMENTATION (not ambient) temp that is on the low end of the ideal range for the yeast strain you are using for the first few days of fermentation. Pitch rate means checking with a pitch calc (brewersfriend, mrmalty, yeastcalc, etc) and if you are using dry yeast, rehydrating it properly. If you aren't rehydrating, you are killing around 50% of the yeast, so you need to basically double the suggested pitch that one of the calcs tells you.

Check out this write up from Chris White about what is happening with the yeast during the different stages of fermentation:
http://www.brewgeeks.com/the-life-cycle-of-yeast.html
 
I'm with everyone else. not using sanitizer probably won't be a problem, but pitching the yeast that hot will be. I learned that lesson the hard way hahaha. Try to get it down to 70 or lower if you can. How are you controlling your ferm temps?
 
cjens19 said:
Man, now I'm also reading that it's not good to add your LME until flameout (which I take to mean as just at the end of boil)? But these instructions had me add it just as my initial 1.5 gal of water got to a boil...
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I don't think anyone reads the boards before their first batch :). Don't get too discouraged. I botched all of these things (and more!) on my first go, and things turned out okay. While not great, or even "good," the first brew was certainly drinkable, and I learned a lot from it.

A couple of batches later, and I'm able to crank out some very good beers relatively quickly - my brew day on Sunday morning was all of 2 hours. Easy like, uh, Sunday morning.

Read the boards a bit, take notes, make adjustments for your next time out. Even if your only takeaway is "everything but the recipe and hop schedule is terrible in these instructions," that's a good lesson.
 
Holy cow, so much good information. Brain is a bit over-loaded! haha. I have not been adding ice at all. Initially, on brew night after I closed the fermenter up, I did add a bag of ice to the swamp cooler to try and get temp down prior to fermentation kicking off. The ice melted overnight on Saturday, and I added more room temp water Sunday morning to create a water buffer (in the hopes of maintaining more stable temps). I wonder if it slowed down this morning because it got too cold on our main level. We have shut our heat off and it got rather cold last night in central Iowa, so my main level was a crisp 64 degrees when I woke up this morning. Hoping that's not too cold. I haven't removed any water from the swamp cooler, so it may be that the water is even colder than the air temperature? Not sure, it did feel pretty cold when i touched it.

What's the rule with movement of the fermenter while fermentation is happening? Like, is it best to leave it alone 100% and not move it at all, or is it OK if say I have to move it to another room for better temp control?

Hopefully my stick-on fermometer is in soon, but I guess at this point I'll have to ride this one out blind :)

So I guess at this point, my bubbling has slowed down quite possibly due to temps dropping to lower to mid 60's? Should I risk trying to warm it up a bit? Or at least get the heat back on in my house to maintain around 68?

Thanks all, you guys have been superb.
 
Do you have a thermometer you can stick into the water to get a reading? It's ok to move the bucket if you need to, I wouldn't worry much about that. Just warm it up 2-3 degrees and try to hold it steady there if you can.

Another great brewing accessory from your local pet store: an aquarium heater. Most times, you need ice in a swamp cooler to keep things cool. Sometimes, you'll find you need a little heat instead - the aquarium heater in the water bath works perfectly for that.
 
While likely too late for this batch, I am guessing you may have chilled the wort quickly enough to avoid off flavors associated with a "hot" ferment. You likely overchilled by adding too much ice, and while not ideal, one can reasonably assume the water outside the fermenter in the swamp cooler is reasonably close to the temperature of the fermenting beer.

Moving forward, I feel it is always best to delay pitching the yeast until your wort is at an acceptable range, say roughly mid sixties depending on yeast strain. Also noteworthy is that desirable results can be obtained at the lower end of fermentation temperatures, BUT some ale yeast activity can slow or stall if the temps are pushed lower, roughly below 60 degrees.

Adding a frozen water bottle or two can easily drop the swamp cooler a few degrees, be gentle, fluctuating temps can confuse the yeast....steady is good.

The yeast is most temperature sensitive during the initial phase of fermentation up to high kruesen, and once fermentation has peaked it is not as critical, usually the first several days, after that the flavor profile is typically set and temperature control is not nearly as critical.
 
Howdy neighbor! Is your LHBS BeerCrazy? If so (or if not) I'd recommend going in there some evening and chat with them. They are very knowledgeable and most of them are patient with n00bs.
 
Yeah I have a floating thermometer that came with the kit, I should have been using that in the swamp cooler, DOH!

Yes, local store is BeerCrazy, only a few minutes away from my house. The 2 guys I've talked to in there have been pretty awesome. I'll be going back in probably tomorrow to pick up a hydrometer and a longer metal spoon.

I'll be home in about 2 hours, I'll do a temp read of the swamp water and see if I need to get it back up to 67ish.

Thanks guys!!
 
cjens19 said:
I'll be home in about 2 hours, I'll do a temp read of the swamp water and see if I need to get it back up to 67ish.

Thanks guys!!
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Just guessing here, but it seems your fermentation peaked some time ago and is now slowing or perhaps even stopped, my guess is that the show is over and the horse has left town. Making temperature adjustments at this point won't really impact the final product. If your room temperature is b/w 65 - 70, you can remove your fermenter from the swamp cooler and just let it sit for 2-3 weeks....RDWHAHB, ya did well!
 
wilserbrewer said:
Just guessing here, but it seems your fermentation peaked some time ago and is now slowing or perhaps even stopped, my guess is that the show is over and the horse has left town. Making temperature adjustments at this point won't really impact the final product. If your room temperature is b/w 65 - 70, you can remove your fermenter from the swamp cooler and just let it sit for 2-3 weeks....RDWHAHB, ya did well!
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:( I'm guessing it peaked sometime Sunday night/Monday morning. I was gone from Sunday morning until last night, and when I got home last night it was bubbling about every 2 seconds. That seems like a pretty quick ferment, so I do worry that it got too cold last night and it stopped fermenting. Hopefully when I get home in about an hour, the temp will have risen on my main level to around 66 or so, and the bubbling has picked up some speed.

If the yeast got stopped prematurely due to cold temps, does that mean the batch is bogarted? Or will it continue to work, just at a slower pace? I guess it probably depends on the activity in the airlock eh?

Thanks man
 
wilserbrewer said:
FYI, I think your fermentation is likely done, or close to it.
RDWHAHB
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After only about 2.5 days?? I have my heat on now. Going to try raising it a few degrees and see if bubbles speed up. Water currently at 64 (same temp as house) and bubbles about 2 x per minute. Ill bring it up to 67 and see if it speeds up.

Thanks!


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2.5 days with a warm start isn't unreasonable. Yeast at warm temps work very fast. They just don't make the tastiest beer that way usually.
 
boydster said:
2.5 days with a warm start isn't unreasonable. Yeast at warm temps work very fast. They just don't make the tastiest beer that way usually.
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Well for my next batch, ill definitely have swamp cooler and ice ready so i can cool the wort down to ferment temp prior to pitch, regardless of instructions. Idc if it takes a couple extra days to ferment, id rather have better brew than quicker.


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cjens19 said:
After only about 2.5 days?? I have my heat on now. Going to try raising it a few degrees and see if bubbles speed up. Water currently at 64 (same temp as house) and bubbles about 2 x per minute. Ill bring it up to 67 and see if it speeds up.

Thanks!
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All I'm trying to tell you is that at this point the bird has flown. Don't continue to fret and raise the heat a couple degrees, count airlock bubbles etc. etc.....

It's over Johnny, the bus left the station. Go ahead and warm it up a few degrees, but don't be disappointed when nothing happens.

Cheers!
 
wilserbrewer said:
All I'm trying to tell you is that at this point the bird has flown. Don't continue to fret and raise the heat a couple degrees, count airlock bubbles etc. etc.....



It's over Johnny, the bus left the station. Go ahead and warm it up a few degrees, but don't be disappointed when nothing happens.



Cheers!
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Im already planning on being disappointed with my first batch :) the next one should go better!


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