cider trouble

[beerlover556]

The last 3 batches of cider i have made (1 gal batches using store apple juice, brown sugar, anf Champaign yeast) have turned out ok as in free of pollution but have been very very very tart. I use tart as a nice term because they were undrinkable because they had no sugar left. Some one mentioned using a wine sweetener to help with that. Has anyone ever used this and how/when did you add it?

 

[jflongo]

There is a lot of ways here. I usually batch prime with frozen apple concentrate, that helps to create carbonation, and sweeten "a little". You could try adding in some wine sweetener when you pour it into the glass, or into the batch prime bucket for bottling. It also depends if you are going to pasteurize these to stop the fermenting process for carbonation, and keep more of the sweetness. A lot of things to think about there. What process od you want to do?

 

[millsbrew]

Have you tried to back-sweeten? There are a lot of posts on here about it. Use concentrate or regular juice and get some sweetness back. If you are bottling, you will really need to keep on top of the bottles so you don't get any bombs. I back-sweetend my last batch and then had to pasteurize the ones that couldn't fit in my fridge. This batch is going to the keg, so that should free me up from boiling my bottles. Good luck.

 

[beerlover556]

There is a lot of ways here. I usually batch prime with frozen apple concentrate, that helps to create carbonation, and sweeten "a little". You could try adding in some wine sweetener when you pour it into the glass, or into the batch prime bucket for bottling. It also depends if you are going to pasteurize these to stop the fermenting process for carbonation, and keep more of the sweetness. A lot of things to think about there. What process od you want to do?

I should mention that i am very very new to all this. I use a glass jug and a simple plug with an airlock in it. I dont have the means to bottle yet but i may try using plastic bottles this next batch but i have never carbonated any of my other batches. Would adding concentrate too my apple juice work better than brown sugar or should i use both?

 

[brianwadley]

It depends on what you are looking for and if you have a large enough pot to pasteurize a gallon bottle. If not, definitely use brown sugar as you can measure out exactly how much you need to carbonate safely. If you want residual sugar and more apple flavor, use concentrate and then pasteurize after a couple days...it likely won't take long with all those sugars to get enough pressure. I would still bottle condition/age after pasteurization.

 

[Tmciderhouse]

My third and fourth batches were tart like that but after doing some research I found out that if you add sweetener after you rack to your second jug it doesn't have that tartness I started with one packet of sweet and low but that wasn't enough for me I ended up with using three packets also found that I had to rack again

 

[bernardsmith]

Hi beerlover556, Looks like folk are offering you some very different ideas about how to add sweetness to your cider. But be careful as these ideas don't mix and match. To summarize -
You might simply add a sweetner that the yeast will not be able to ferment - Not all sugars are fermentable - Pure stevia for example, and if Tmciderhouse is correct sweet and low.
You might add fermentable sugars - say from concentrated apple juice but to prevent the yeast in your cider from converting that into more CO2 and alcohol you would need to kill the yeast by pasteurizing the cider.
You might add those same sugars but rather than cook the cider (with the danger of exploding bottles if there is CO2 trapped in the bottles) you might stabilize the cider before adding sweetener - That is done by adding two chemicals you can get from your LHBS - K-meta and K-sorbate. You need to dissolve these in a little water before adding otherwise you can create a volcano of cider as any trapped CO2 will nucleate around the tiny surfaces of the powders and will then gush up taking with it a significant amount of cider with enough energy - sometimes - to paint your ceiling. Brewers tend to like to pasteurize - They like heat, I guess, and cooking their "brews".. whereas wine-makers tend to prefer to stabilize their ciders and wines. We tend to avoid heat as heat sets pectins and makes great jam but cloudy wines.

Last point: you say you added brown sugar and that is fine. But you are making something more like a wine. Apple juice on its own fermented will have an SG of about 1.050 or a potential ABV of about 6 or 7%. That's a cider. The dryness you are tasting may have as much to do with the lack of balance between the additional amount of alcohol (1 lb of sugar in a gallon will raise the ABV by 40 points or an additional 5% ) and the apple flavor now more hidden by the molasses in the sugar.. In other words, you are making a harsh dry wine rather than a cider. Or it may have something to do with the quality of the apple juice you are using and its suitability for cider making. You may want to experiment with other sources of juice. Just sayin'...
Good luck

 

[madscientist451]

The quality of your cider starts with the apples used, or the juice.
Some people use Mott's or Sam's club apple juice and report good results, but I don't like the cider I've made using big box store juice.
Since you are only making a gallon at a time, use the best quality juice you can find.
Two 1.5 L containers of "Simply Apple" juice found in the grocery store cold juice section will run you $6-8 and that amount will be just right for a 1 gallon jug fermenter. If you can't get that brand, look for something similar.
Don't add any sugar, use a wine yeast like QA-23 or 71-B 1122 or a specific cider yeast and see what happens. I've also used WL-002 beer yeast with decent results. The yeast selection has a big impact on your cider flavor, but again, the selection of apples or juice is the most important thing.
You can try all kinds of additives in your cider, but if you start with low quality ingredients you shouldn't expect to make a high quality cider.

 

[gratus fermentatio]

Try using 71-B yeast, it will metabolize about 20% of the malic acid in your juice, making your end product less tart. You could also use an ale yeast, like Nottingham, ale yeasts tend to leave a bit of residual sugar & don't strip out as much apple flavor.

You might be able to salvage those ciders that are too tart by using a bit of calcium carbonate to reduce the acid, or use a malolactic (MLF) fermentation to reduce the malic acid. Age can fix a lot of things, you might do well to just tuck those ciders away & let them age another 6 months to a year.
Regards, GF.

 

[z-bob]

Use a different yeast next time (71B or Cotes des Blanc), and don't add so much sugar. With the current batch let it age for a while; it should get better. You can also sweeten it at serving time. Pour just a little in your glass and muddle a sugar cube in it, then pour in the rest. Or boil some sugar and water to make some simple syrup and keep it in a squirt bottle in the fridge. Add a little to your glass, to taste.

You can also mix yours with a too-sweet commercial cider -- that gives you an excuse to drink two.

 

[BILTIT]

How much sugar per gallon did you use? With champagne yeast you need to add more sugar to end up with any residual sweetness or else go to a lower alcohol tolerance yeast.

When i use champagne yeasts i find 1.5-2lbs/gal of sugar leaves it with a fair sweetness so it isn't so dry and tart.