Cider Timeline

[Boleslaw]

Is hard cider made in the Fall for next Fall or made in the Fall for the same Fall? It would seem kinda young to me.

 

[brewSJ]

My cider made in the fall is for next spring and summer. Yes, you can do things like cold-crash to speed it along, but I just let it condition naturally. When the all the yeast drops and the cider is clear, then it's time to bottle and start drinking it.

 

[Boleslaw]

My cider made in the fall is for next spring and summer. Yes, you can do things like cold-crash to speed it along, but I just let it condition naturally. When the all the yeast drops and the cider is clear, then it's time to bottle and start drinking it.

Ok, that makes sense. There’s an apple orchard 4 miles from me I need to visit.

 

[Boleslaw]

Ok, that makes sense. There’s an apple orchard 4 miles from me I need to visit.

Any recommendation for yeast? Im just going to get a few gallons of their cider.

 

[pvtpublic]

It depends on what you want. Do you want some refined, dry, white wine-like cider? Or do you want it to be more of a fresh pressed apple cider with alcohol? EC1118 will get you a dry cider for next year. Nottingham yeast will get you something to enjoy for this fall, with a semi-dry characteristic with esters, and letting it naturally ferment with it's own wild flora will get you something like a sweet, fresh pressed cider without too much acid bite.

 

[Boleslaw]

It depends on what you want. Do you want some refined, dry, white wine-like cider? Or do you want it to be more of a fresh pressed apple cider with alcohol? EC1118 will get you a dry cider for next year. Nottingham yeast will get you something to enjoy for this fall, with a semi-dry characteristic with esters, and letting it naturally ferment with it's own wild flora will get you something like a sweet, fresh pressed cider without too much acid bite.

I have both yeasts and the buddy I’d be making in for likes a dryer cider so I’ll use the EC1118. Thanx.

 

[Chalkyt]

I generally find that cider made in the Fall is quite drinkable towards the end of Winter but gets even better with more time.

If you want just a touch of sweetness, both S04 and M02 can stop naturally at a bit above SG1.000 leaving some unfermented sugar (a bit like 1/2 a teaspoon of sugar in a cup of coffee).

My general purpose go-to is S04 and I sometimes bottle around 1.008 then waterbath pasteurise to stop fermentation at around 1.004 to get a lightly carbonated cider with the tart edge taken of the fully fermented version. With other yeasts such as EC1118, bottling at 1.004 may give you a bone dry carbonated cider or just let it continue to 1.000 (or even below if there is a lot of alcohol) and ferment all of the sugar for a flat dry version.

 

[Boleslaw]

I generally find that cider made in the Fall is quite drinkable towards the end of Winter but gets even better with more time.

If you want just a touch of sweetness, both S04 and M02 can stop naturally at a bit above SG1.000 leaving some unfermented sugar (a bit like 1/2 a teaspoon of sugar in a cup of coffee).

My general purpose go-to is S04 and I sometimes bottle around 1.008 then waterbath pasteurise to stop fermentation at around 1.004 to get a lightly carbonated cider with the tart edge taken of the fully fermented version. With other yeasts such as EC1118, bottling at 1.004 may give you a bone dry carbonated cider or just let it continue to 1.000 (or even below if there is a lot of alcohol) and ferment all of the sugar for a flat dry version.

I need to take a class somewhere. Half of what you guys are saying is a foreign language to me. All I know is add yeast to cider, after a couple months rack it, few more months rack again then bottle at the end of a year. Try not to laugh.

 

[Chalkyt]

Yep, we all started knowing almost nothing.

I would suggest spending $50 or so on Claude Jolicoeur's book "The New Cider Makers Handbook". It is very readable and after a few skims through you can dig deeper. An alternative (but a bit more expensive at around $USD 175) is the University of Tasmania's on-line short-course "Cider Start Up" which covers a lot of the basic material in the Jolicoeur book. Tasmania is a major cider producing Australian State.

The S04 and M02 mentioned above are simply types of commercial yeast produced by Fermentis and Mangrove Jack. There are many other champagne, ale, and wine yeasts available for cider and everyone has their favourites.

The short, short, course is that apple juice has a lot of sugar. The sugar (and a few other things) make the juice more dense than water and this can be measured with a hydrometer which will tell you what the specific gravity (SG) or denseness is compared with water which is SG 1.000. Most of the denseness of apple juice is due to sugar, and a typical juice will have a specific gravity (SG) of 1.050 which is about 130 grams of sugar per litre of juice. So we use SG as a proxy for sugar content. The starting SG is often referred to as OG (Original Gravity).

Fermentation by natural or added yeast will convert the sugar into about 50% alcohol and 50% carbon dioxide. So (very roughly) a litre of juice will have the potential to produce 65 grams of alcohol. If you let the cider ferment completely, all the sugar will be consumed, leaving a tart, dry, somewhat alcoholic cider which is sometimes the aim. Some yeasts are a bit sensitive to alcohol levels and will stop fermentation if the alcohol gets too much, and so some of the sugar (sweetness) remains.

A little CO2 can be captured by bottling before fermentation is finished and letting the CO2 that is produced inside the bottle become absorbed into the cider as fermentation continues and pressure builds up in the bottle. It is released as fizz when the bottle is opened.

The finished gravity (FG) is what we call the SG when fermentation stops. The FG level can be controlled by disabling the yeast through chemical or heat pasteurising and so the residual unfermented sugar remains in the cider.

Thus endeth the short, short, lesson!... Also, have a good read of Yooper's post "Cider for Beginners" at the top of the Forum.

Let the journey continue!

 

[Boleslaw]

Ok that helps a good bit. Thanx. Alcohol content is important otherwise I’d just drink apple juice but if it tastes bad then it’s a wasted effort. My friend and I are retired sailors and we’ve drunk some pretty nasty stuff in our day. My goal is to make something we actually like with a good alcohol content.

 

[Chalkyt]

Getting a bit more advanced...

As a rough guide (to make something that you "actually like with a good alcohol content") you can figure out the potential alcohol level by calculating how much sugar you will need to convert into alcohol and CO2. A common formula is (OG-FG) x 130, e.g. (1.050-1.000) x 130 = 6.5% ABV). Measuring the SG after you have added honey, brown sugar, juice or whatever to boost the potential alcohol is probably easier than trying to calculate how much sugar has been added to be fermented, so a hydrometer is the first bit of essential equipment that you need (they are cheap and easy to use!).

So for example, the rough calculation (and "rough" is usually near enough for craft cider making) if you want to finish an uncarbonated cider with say 8% ABV and 1/2 teaspoon of sugar (2.5+ grams) remaining per 12 oz bottle, you will need to start with an OG of about 1.063 and stop fermentation at 1.003 (7.75 g/L of sugar). Google "Vinolab" so see their calculator of SG vs Sugar or go to the Brewer's Friend calculator. Or... just go by taste.

One way to stop fermentation where you want it is to heat pasteurise the cider and kill the yeast. Putting bottles of cider in hot (65C) water for 10+ minutes is a simple way to do this. Also see Papper's post about a slightly different method at the top of the forum. There are also chemical ways of stopping the yeast.

 

[bwible]

I’ve used Fermentis Safcider yeast.

I’m going to be buying some fresh apple juice cider blend from my hb shop this year. I’m thinking I need to sorbate or sulfite the cider after its finished fermenting. The one I did last year went off and went funky in the keg after a few months. I’m thinking you’re supposed to sulfite or sorbate to lock it down. Nobody else doing this?

 

[mashpaddled]

I’ve used Fermentis Safcider yeast.

I’m going to be buying some fresh apple juice cider blend from my hb shop this year. I’m thinking I need to sorbate or sulfite the cider after its finished fermenting. The one I did last year went off and went funky in the keg after a few months. I’m thinking you’re supposed to sulfite or sorbate to lock it down. Nobody else doing this?

If the cider is dry, it may not be necessary to arrest further fermentation. If you want to keep any amount of sugar, then you should arrest fermentation at the desired stopping point.

One important detail there is how the juice blend was processed before you bought it. If your homebrew shop presses the juice in house and sells it in buckets, you may need to add your additive of choice to wipe out any native occupants--especially if you want a dry cider. It is possible to dry out a cider but then have native yeast or bacteria remain that will funk it up even with little to no sugar remaining. If you intend to lock in any amount of sugar, it may not be necessary to hit it before primary fermentation. If the juice from your shop is sulfured or pasteurized and you're still getting unwanted occupants, there is a point of infection somewhere along the way in your equipment.

 

[bwible]

If the cider is dry, it may not be necessary to arrest further fermentation. If you want to keep any amount of sugar, then you should arrest fermentation at the desired stopping point.

One important detail there is how the juice blend was processed before you bought it. If your homebrew shop presses the juice in house and sells it in buckets, you may need to add your additive of choice to wipe out any native occupants--especially if you want a dry cider. It is possible to dry out a cider but then have native yeast or bacteria remain that will funk it up even with little to no sugar remaining. If you intend to lock in any amount of sugar, it may not be necessary to hit it before primary fermentation. If the juice from your shop is sulfured or pasteurized and you're still getting unwanted occupants, there is a point of infection somewhere along the way in your equipment.

They buy it in bulk from a commercial place that does real blends for cider. You take in your keg and they fill it up.

 

[Boleslaw]

Getting a bit more advanced...

As a rough guide (to make something that you "actually like with a good alcohol content") you can figure out the potential alcohol level by calculating how much sugar you will need to convert into alcohol and CO2. A common formula is (OG-FG) x 130, e.g. (1.050-1.000) x 130 = 6.5% ABV). Measuring the SG after you have added honey, brown sugar, juice or whatever to boost the potential alcohol is probably easier than trying to calculate how much sugar has been added to be fermented, so a hydrometer is the first bit of essential equipment that you need (they are cheap and easy to use!).

So for example, the rough calculation (and "rough" is usually near enough for craft cider making) if you want to finish an uncarbonated cider with say 8% ABV and 1/2 teaspoon of sugar (2.5+ grams) remaining per 12 oz bottle, you will need to start with an OG of about 1.063 and stop fermentation at 1.003 (7.75 g/L of sugar). Google "Vinolab" so see their calculator of SG vs Sugar or go to the Brewer's Friend calculator. Or... just go by taste.

One way to stop fermentation where you want it is to heat pasteurise the cider and kill the yeast. Putting bottles of cider in hot (65C) water for 10+ minutes is a simple way to do this. Also see Papper's post about a slightly different method at the top of the forum. There are also chemical ways of stopping the yeast.

If you don’t stop fermentation the ABV won’t reduce will it?

 

[Chalkyt]

No, the ABV will increase. In the example above if you don't stop at 1.003 the continuing fermentation will chew up the sugar to 1.000 generating another 0.4% or even more ABV.

With a high ABV your fully finished SG could end up below 1.000. Because alcohol has a lower SG than water (0.789) the resulting mix of alcohol and water might end up with a measured FG in the order of 0.995.

Adding fermentable sugar to increase OG at the start is the way to get high ABV. For example, adding 20g/L (four teaspoons per litre) of sugar to a typical 1.050 apple juice will increase the OG by 0.008 which is roughly another 1% increase in potential ABV from 6.5% to 7.5%.

 

[Boleslaw]

No, the ABV will increase. In the example above if you don't stop at 1.003 the continuing fermentation will chew up the sugar to 1.000 generating another 0.4% or even more ABV.

With a high ABV your fully finished SG could end up below 1.000. Because alcohol has a lower SG than water (0.789) the resulting mix of alcohol and water might end up with a measured FG in the order of 0.995.

Adding fermentable sugar to increase OG at the start is the way to get high ABV. For example, adding 20g/L (four teaspoons per litre) of sugar to a typical 1.050 apple juice will increase the OG by 0.008 which is roughly another 1% increase in potential ABV from 6.5% to 7.5%.

Understood. Does it matter how much yeast you put in a 3 gallon batch of cider if the yeast will continue to eat the sugar that’s there for a year?

 

[Chalkyt]

The yeast will eat the sugar until it is all gone, then fall to the bottom of the cider. This is why some spent yeast (and settled apple pulp) may appear sprinkled at the bottom of a naturally carbonated bottle.

If you put too little yeast in, generally the population will grow over time to suit the food supply (sugar and nutrients), but for a reasonably active fermentation it is best to add yeast according to the supplier's recommendation (usually something like a teaspoon of yeast and optionally a teaspoon or less of a nutrient such as DAP, per gallon).

Apples are generally low on nitrogen nutrients which yeast need to thrive, hence the addition of DAP, Fermaid, etc, is quite common but not essential.

 

[Boleslaw]

All that remains is a 3 gallon recipe and a lot of reading. Thank you to everyone for answering my questions.