Cider not fermenting?

[_bygolly]

I've been using the same general recipe for all the ciders I've made lately, in exception to changing some measurements around such as sugar and whatnot.
My last two batches have not given me any sign of activity. I was doing a cherry cider and put the usual stuff in there, and added some Nottingham yeast that I had JUST bought from my LHBS. I waited 7 days and finally decided to throw it out, assuming I picked up some juice that had unfermentable ingredients, and I just misread the label. So I went back to my plain old apple cider recipe with the same yeast. No sign of activity, after 4 days I went to the LHBS and got a different packet of Nottingham yeast and added a tsp that night. It's been 24 hours and no activity. I know it's not always immediate but every cider I've made has been pretty quick to act. I don't know what's going on.

My recipe:

1/2 gal motts apple juice
1/2 gal ocean spray cranberry juice
4 1/2 cups table sugar,
1 1/4 cup brown sugar
1/3 cup cinnamon
1 tsp Nottingham yeast, hydrated in 1/2 cup lukewarm water

I add the sugar to about 1/3 gallon of apple juice and heat it up for a good 15 to 20 mins, stirring it to keep from boiling. I let it cool and then pitch the yeast.

Both juices are pasteurized and have only vitamin c in them. I've used them before and they've worked fine.

 

[Colbizle]

I've been using the same general recipe for all the ciders I've made lately, in exception to changing some measurements around such as sugar and whatnot.
My last two batches have not given me any sign of activity. I was doing a cherry cider and put the usual stuff in there, and added some Nottingham yeast that I had JUST bought from my LHBS. I waited 7 days and finally decided to throw it out, assuming I picked up some juice that had unfermentable ingredients, and I just misread the label. So I went back to my plain old apple cider recipe with the same yeast. No sign of activity, after 4 days I went to the LHBS and got a different packet of Nottingham yeast and added a tsp that night. It's been 24 hours and no activity. I know it's not always immediate but every cider I've made has been pretty quick to act. I don't know what's going on.

My recipe:

1/2 gal motts apple juice
1/2 gal ocean spray cranberry juice
4 1/2 cups table sugar,
1 1/4 cup brown sugar
1/3 cup cinnamon
1 tsp Nottingham yeast, hydrated in 1/2 cup lukewarm water

I add the sugar to about 1/3 gallon of apple juice and heat it up for a good 15 to 20 mins, stirring it to keep from boiling. I let it cool and then pitch the yeast.

Both juices are pasteurized and have only vitamin c in them. I've used them before and they've worked fine.

What does "no sign of activity" mean? Have you taken a gravity reading? A gravity reading will tell you if you have any kind of fermentation going on. Airlock activity is most defiantly not a viable way to determine if the yeast are actually going to work. Also what is your batch size? I'm assuming 1 gallon?

 

[_bygolly]

Yes it's 1 gallon. I keep them small so I can experiment. And I never took a reading because all the others acted so quickly and vigorously, I figured this would too. And by that I meant that I would see at least some bubbles, the previous batches would always foam through the air lock so I started using blow offs

 

[Colbizle]

Yes it's 1 gallon. I keep them small so I can experiment. And I never took a reading because all the others acted so quickly and vigorously, I figured this would too. And by that I meant that I would see at least some bubbles, the previous batches would always foam through the air lock so I started using blow offs

Honestly, you'll read it a million times on this forum but the absence of air lock activity does not mean fermentation is NOT underway. My advice, Go to LHBS, pick up hydrometer and a test tube, (about $15 bucks total?) Then take a reading (it is very easy). Jot down what the numbers are on the tube, wait 2-3 days, and then take another reading. If you see a the numbers have dropped then your yeast are working. Without gravity readings, really there is no way to troubleshoot your issue. We don't know if the yeast started, then stopped, nor do we know if it even ever started because you don't have an initial gravity reading.

 

[_bygolly]

I actually have a hydrometer. I took a reading when I first made the batch. I use the tube it came in to measure it. I guess I'll take a reading in a day or two and see if anything happened

 

[Colbizle]

I actually have a hydrometer. I took a reading when I first made the batch. I use the tube it came in to measure it. I guess I'll take a reading in a day or two and see if anything happened

Cool, so what was the initial reading? What is your starting gravity? Yes, take a reading in at LEAST 2-3 days from now. If nothing happened, then I'd try pitching more yeast (hydrate it first, or make a starter )

 

[number40fan]

I am only on my third batch, but I have to say that if it is done in a clear container, there is no doubt as to whether fermentation is happening.

 

[Colbizle]

I am only on my third batch, but I have to say that if it is done in a clear container, there is no doubt as to whether fermentation is happening.

What do you perceive as "fermentation is happening"?

 

[number40fan]

The bubbles!

 

[Colbizle]

The bubbles!

I've seen bubbles at the beginning of fermentation and also when fermentation has completed, so again, it's just not a viable way of determining whats going on with your brew. How do you know if it's fully fermented or not? How do you know it didn't stop halfway through? It's better to just take a simple reading without trying to play the guessing game.

It'd be like driving around with a broken gas gauge, how do you know when you need gas? What if your car runs out in the middle of road? lol

 

[number40fan]

I was just relating to the OP that with cider and a clear fermentation container that it is easy to tell when fermentation is going on. As for completion, yes a reading could be used to tell if it is at the point that you want to stop it. Or, it could be left to run its course until it is done/dry. Please tell me that you have made a cider and know what I am referring too.

I bet you a million dollars that I could drive a vehicle with a broken gas gauge and never run out of gas!

 

[podz]

I've been using the same general recipe for all the ciders I've made lately, in exception to changing some measurements around such as sugar and whatnot.

No you haven't, you've been changing all sorts of things around at random and "whatnot" (what you're not telling). You can't even remember which type of juice you were using between one batch and the next when you are imagining things like "assuming I picked up some juice that had unfermentable ingredients, and I just misread the label", etc. You don't misread the label; you either read it or you don't. And if you read it, then you know what it says.

Then you state that you never took a hydrometer reading, two posts later you state that you actually did take a hydrometer reading but still haven't posted the numbers despite people asking.

Throwing batches out within a few days because you don't think that they are working, then asking people to tell you why you think that they aren't working... Last time we had this sort of attention getting thread, it went on for 40 pages or so (Re: losing my mind, about to give up the hobby).

Next.

 

[_bygolly]

When I said I was using the same "general" recipe I used the word "general" because it wasn't entirely the same measurements. But the measurements were only changed a little bit at a time (about 1/2 cup) so id say it was pretty much the same. I only changed juices once and it had an ingredient on there that I wasn't familiar with, and I didn't know whether that ingredient would affect anything or not. I also never said I didn't take a reading. I don't need to post the reading yet cause until 3 days from now I won't know whether or not it's changed. Which since it must be known it was 1.130. The purpose of a forum is to discuss topics and ideas or help out/answer questions for people that are not as familiar with this. I'd appreciate if any more comments on this topic were to help me or anyone else having a similar problem.

 

[podz]

I also never said I didn't take a reading.

And I never took a reading because all the others acted so quickly and vigorously, I figured this would too.

Which since it must be known it was 1.130.

So you are pitching ale yeast into an environment so rich in sugar that it has a potential of 18% ABV and wondering what is the problem. The times when you had a working ferment, you didn't use this much sugar I am certain.

If you want to ferment this level of starting gravity, then you'll need to pitch champagne yeast and DAP. Nottingham just ain't going to cut it, it's being drowned in sugar.

 

[_bygolly]

Yes before I was using less sugar. I've already put 1tsp of yeast from the first time and 1tsp yesterday, and I've heard different types of yeast don't mix well together. So I'm guessing I shouldn't add the champagne yeast to this one. I'll be using less sugar next time.

 

[chevalcider]

May I add my own question to this thread? Yes? Thanks! Here goes.

I pressed juice from three different varieties of apples on the weekend. My SGs were as follows 1.062, 1.052 and 1.042. The first two received a campden tablet per gallon in Friday night. The third was pressed on Saturday and I added campden on Saturday night. I pitched 71B-1122 in one and two on Sunday afternoon, about 40 or so hours after the tablets. The 1.042 batch received the same yeast on Sunday night, a little better than 24 hours later after tabs. One and two are rolling at the moment. They formed a foam on top within 24 hours and then the foam dropped and I have a vigorous ferment with tons of CO2 coming off the surface. The third batch hasn't budged. I have tested gravity lately but I don't see the point. It still smells like apple juice and is as clear as ever. Last night I added yeast energizer and stirred to no avail. I seem to recall this variety taking its time last year but not to this extent. I am considering buying another pack of nutrient and pitching EC-1188 to take care of things. For the time being I am going to warm it up to see if that wakes things up a little. Is there anything else I can do?

 

[_bygolly]

So seeing as I put too much sugar in there and 2 tsp of yeast, could I just rack it into a 2 gallon bucket and add another gallon of juice?

 

[Colbizle]

So seeing as I put too much sugar in there and 2 tsp of yeast, could I just rack it into a 2 gallon bucket and add another gallon of juice?

FWIW, I just made a cider last night. Here what I did. I first took a hydro reading of the cider juice without adding any sugar yet and came out at 1.045. I want to get to 1.070. (you should shoot for 1.060 or so).. But what I did was I poured all my cider into a bucket and then I heated up some honey and brown sugar in a sauce pan with a little bit of water. I then slow poured a portion of the mixture into the cider and stirred vigorously. I then took a gravity reading of the cider. OK now it's at 1.050. SO I add more mixture, stir, check gravity. I repeated this till I got to 1.070.

You should do the same expect because you already added the sugar you will be adding juice. Add juice, stir, check gravity until you get DOWN till 1.060 or so.

Then pitch yeast based on how many gallons. You have. There are plenty of calculators out there. But at this point I'd just pitch a packet. (or 2 packets unhydrated for 5 gallons).. I wouldn't worry about over pitching at this point.

 

[_bygolly]

Okay. So I'll put it in a 2 gallon bucket, add juice, add enough sugar to get to 1.060, and pitch the rest of the packet.

 

[Colbizle]

Okay. So I'll put it in a 2 gallon bucket, add juice, add enough sugar to get to 1.060, and pitch the rest of the packet.

Ya that should work, I dunno if another gallon of juice will dilute it enough down to 1.060 if you truly are at 1.130.. You can try, but you might end up needing more juice. At this point you won't need anymore sugar lol.

 

[_bygolly]

Maybe I could split it between 2 2 gallon buckets. 1/4 gallon of cider and 3/4 juice in each... I don't want to have to throw anything out again