Cider making advice with purchased homebrew kit please

[NCBDET]

Hello!
Please could i have some starter advice for making Cider for the first time.
I have purchased 2 demijohns, cheesecloth, campden tablets, champagne cider years and i have a bunch of apples as photographed.
I am not sure how many apples i need to fill 2 demijohns.
I don't have a press or a juicer.
Would i chop up and simmer for a few hours then mash up and strain or something?
Really appreciate your help.
Thanks
Nick

 

[Rick Stephens]

Figured no one was going to answer this since you need a method to get the juice out of the apples. There are ways, you can freeze apple chunks, the juice will almost literally fall out as it thaws. You can also grind your apples in a food processor and filter through cheesecloth. Don't simmer, you ruin the flavors of the apple juice.

 

[NCBDET]

Thanks Rick. I figured i was going to blend them and sieve through my cheesecloth. Just not sure on how many is needed for 2 demijohns.
Having juiced my apples, when do i add the Campden tablets and yeast?

 

[JimRausch]

The apple crop yield varies from year-to-year and location of course. In my area, last year was a fabulous one for apples, this year was not. I harvested and pressed just one 'Homer bucket' of apples this year which yielded only about 3/4 gallon cider. Last year 5 buckets pressed yielded > 6 gallons. Without a press of some sort, or a juicer, your yield of juice will be less.

 

[JimRausch]

Having juiced my apples, when do i add the Campden tablets and yeast?

Once you get your juice, you add the campden right away. 12-24 hours later add pectinase enzyme, if you are going to (helps clarify the juice). Add yeast 24-36 hours after adding the Campden. Adding nutrients would be a good idea too.
Good luck!

 

[Rick Stephens]

I don't bother with pectin enzyme when using champagne yeast. IMHO you will end up needing to age the resulting cider to mellow it out anyway, aging is going to clear it as much as anything else.

Press and add campden, next day pitch yeast. Not disagreeing with Jim, his way is just as right.

 

[NCBDET]

I don't bother with pectin enzyme when using champagne yeast. IMHO you will end up needing to age the resulting cider to mellow it out anyway, aging is going to clear it as much as anything else.

Press and add campden, next day pitch yeast. Not disagreeing with Jim, his way is just as right.

Thanks Rick

 

[NCBDET]

Once you get your juice, you add the campden right away. 12-24 hours later add pectinase enzyme, if you are going to (helps clarify the juice). Add yeast 24-36 hours after adding the Campden. Adding nutrients would be a good idea too.
Good luck!

Thanks Jim

 

[NCBDET]

I don't bother with pectin enzyme when using champagne yeast. IMHO you will end up needing to age the resulting cider to mellow it out anyway, aging is going to clear it as much as anything else.

Press and add campden, next day pitch yeast. Not disagreeing with Jim, his way is just as right.

Hi Rick
When do i put the the airlocks in?
I've put my campden in and will wait 24 hours to then put the yeast in. Do i put anything in the airlock or just push it into the black lid?
Also, is this the right level of cider in the demijohn?
Thanks
Nick

 

[Rick Stephens]

Once you pitch yeast you have to have a way for the CO2 to escape. No problem until then. You might find, depending on type of yeast you are using, that you have a bit too much cider in the bottle. Different yeasts foam up more than others. Pitch the yeast and then install the airlock.

Depending on type of airlock there is a level to fill it to. Use water while doing primary fermentation. Use vodka while doing secondary after racking.

 

[NCBDET]

Attached is what i have. Champagne yeast and plastic airlock. Where would i fill the water to?
Also, you mention secondary firmentation? (sorry novice questions here!) How long would my first firmentation last?
Thanks again

 

[NCBDET]

attached picture

 

[Maylar]

the airlock should be pushed into a grommet in the cap. fill it half way (most have min/max markings).

 

[NCBDET]

great thanks - no marking on my airlock but will fill it half way

 

[Knightshade]

I think...

that w/your bottles being as full as they are, that there is a slight risk that you might have some krausen pushing through to your airlock. Within itself...not really that big of a deal, just clean it and put it back in place.

However, due to the risk of contact...not sure you want just regular tap water sitting in your airlock. I'd put some star san, vodka or something similar in there...but that's just me.

 

[Rick Stephens]

Been a while since I went looking for a guide.... this one looks decent for a couple pages.

Here's some airlocks bubbling away. I usually just use water for active fermentation. The closeup lock has StarSan in it though. Guess I don't have any consistency to my methods. I always use Vodka for secondary.

Primary takes as long as it takes until the highly active fermentation is complete. You don't have to rack off then and get rid of the lees on the bottom, but I always do. Then I set up with vodka in the lock and let it mellow - this is especially useful with Champagne yeasts as the end product of primary is pretty brutal and needs some time to blend the alcohols in.

 

[NCBDET]

Thanks for the guide, very useful!
I had no idea how involved the whole process was.
Regarding alcohol volume....i've used sweet apples and some apple concentrate to top up. What volume would this yeald? Would i need to put more sugar in?

 

[Rick Stephens]

I find myself adding less and less sugars and preferring lower ABV. Up to you. I am getting to where I like finding subtle flavors - high primary sugar levels, which lead to high ABV, tend to blow away with alcohol flavor instead. Owning a hydrometer is the only way to be sure. But you probably end up between 4 and 5 percent with straight apple juice. Apple concentrate adds around 28 grams of sugar per 2 ounces of concentrate. So you probably gained a couple points of ABV. Adding before primary also means you'll eat up more of the flavors in fermentation. Probably a great place to start with your first batch. More batches you do, the more you'll be looking to leave the interesting flavors for consumption.

 

[Knightshade]

Lots of reading...or lots of typing. Take your pick.

I'm one of the neophytes in here for sure..but this quick vid will probably shed some light for ya. It is based on juice..but should help regardless.

https://www.northernbrewer.com/blogs/wine-cider-and-mead-making/how-to-make-hard-cider#video

 

[NCBDET]

I find myself adding less and less sugars and preferring lower ABV. Up to you. I am getting to where I like finding subtle flavors - high primary sugar levels, which lead to high ABV, tend to blow away with alcohol flavor instead. Owning a hydrometer is the only way to be sure. But you probably end up between 4 and 5 percent with straight apple juice. Apple concentrate adds around 28 grams of sugar per 2 ounces of concentrate. So you probably gained a couple points of ABV. Adding before primary also means you'll eat up more of the flavors in fermentation. Probably a great place to start with your first batch. More batches you do, the more you'll be looking to leave the interesting flavors for consumption.

Great cheers!!

 

[Rick Stephens]

I want to correct my above assumption: "More batches you do, the more you'll be looking to leave the interesting flavors for consumption."

My wife says I am strange. I do cider for the details in getting different flavors right. That's my goal. She also says, and she is ALWAYS right, of course, that most people want to make more alcohol.

 

[Knightshade]

I want to correct the above assumption: "More batches you do, the more you'll be looking to leave the interesting flavors for consumption."

My wife says I am strange. I do cider for the details in getting different flavors right. That's my goal. She also says, and she is ALWAYS right, of course, that most people want to make more alcohol.

It isn't just you. The two ciders I have on tap now are in the 8% range and I've been thinking that I want to tone that down a bit w/the next batch to see if I can get more of whatever complimentary flavor I ultimately choose. (I'm leaning towards trying mangos, pineapple and...something...)

My wife just drinks them and says "They're grrrreeat honey...keep it up!" Which I've been translating into..."Keep the ABV up.."

 

[Rick Stephens]

Lots of reading...or lots of typing. Take your pick.

I'm one of the neophytes in here for sure..but this quick vid will probably shed some light for ya. It is based on juice..but should help regardless.

https://www.northernbrewer.com/blogs/wine-cider-and-mead-making/how-to-make-hard-cider#video

Good call. Northern Brewer does a great job on their videos! Worth every minute watching them.
I have enjoyed Number 12 Cider's videos on Utubie as well.

 

[NCBDET]

I want to correct the above assumption: "More batches you do, the more you'll be looking to leave the interesting flavors for consumption."

My wife says I am strange. I do cider for the details in getting different flavors right. That's my goal. She also says, and she is ALWAYS right, of course, that most people want to make more alcohol.

My goal is to produce something similar to my favorite Cider Aspall Premier Cru 6.8% volume

 

[Rick Stephens]

My wife just drinks them and says "They're grrrreeat honey...keep it up!" Which I've been translating into..."Keep the ABV up.."

Keep the boss happy or drink alone.

 

[Maylar]

Regarding alcohol volume....i've used sweet apples and some apple concentrate to top up. What volume would this yeald? Would i need to put more sugar in?

The number one tool that every brewer/winemaker needs is a hydrometer. You're blind without one. Knowing what the specific gravity is at the start tells you how much alcohol you can get. Knowing the SG at the end tells you if the ferment is finished or not. We can't estimate ABV for you without knowing exactly how much sugar is in your batch. If you don't have one, get one now. Seriously. Don't add any sugar. Most cider comes out about 6.5%. Your concentrate will probably raise that up somewhat.

 

[Rick Stephens]

My goal is to produce something similar to my favorite Cider Aspall Premier Cru 6.8% volume

Of note, the commercial guys all have tricks to make their cider taste just right, and the same every time. The ABV is the easiest and least important consideration as you can adjust that easily with all sorts of methods early or late in the process..

I haven't tried to match a commercial product yet... I'd probably get pretty frustrated. I found this site though because of the Grahams English Cider recipe. on the cider recipe pages. I'm on my second batch of that one and it works just as written down. Brilliant.

 

[Maylar]

I do cider for the details in getting different flavors right. That's my goal.

As do I. See my signature. I see cider as a beer type of drink, cold and fizzy and 6-ish % alcohol. Every New Englander knows that nothing compliments BBQ on a summer day than a cold cider.

When I started making cider I did a bunch of experimental things with flavoring and whatnot. Eventually I decided that I need to master the basic apple before I'm qualified to make variations. I do competitions every year (except this damned pandemic year). When I get a gold medal I'll start experimenting again.

 

[Rick Stephens]

As do I. See my signature. I see cider as a beer type of drink, cold and fizzy and 6-ish % alcohol. Every New Englander knows that nothing compliments BBQ on a summer day than a cold cider.

When I started making cider I did a bunch of experimental things with flavoring and whatnot. Eventually I decided that I need to master the basic apple before I'm qualified to make variations. I do competitions every year (except this damned pandemic year). When I get a gold medal I'll start experimenting again.

I like it. And your posts are always down to earth. Keep it up so I can learn from your mastery.

 

[NCBDET]

I find myself adding less and less sugars and preferring lower ABV. Up to you. I am getting to where I like finding subtle flavors - high primary sugar levels, which lead to high ABV, tend to blow away with alcohol flavor instead. Owning a hydrometer is the only way to be sure. But you probably end up between 4 and 5 percent with straight apple juice. Apple concentrate adds around 28 grams of sugar per 2 ounces of concentrate. So you probably gained a couple points of ABV. Adding before primary also means you'll eat up more of the flavors in fermentation. Probably a great place to start with your first batch. More batches you do, the more you'll be looking to leave the interesting flavors for consumption.

So i added my yeast on 3 days ago and still bubbling away. How long would this usually take before i bottle it?
Thanks