Cider going crazy !

[christosmalaka]

Hello all
This is a wonderful site, thanks to the organizers and amazing posters that make it so awesome ! :rockin:
I am a newbie - At Christmas, I started brewing IPA again from kits after a 35 year break and can't get enough of this forum. Am just starting to branch out into more interesting ways to brew than from kits, and my partner loves sparkling flavored cider.

This is my question. This is my 1st ever cider brew. I bought 5 gallons of apple juice, pasteurized it and added 3 pounds of normal white sugar, and a pound of soft brown sugar. I took a OG which was an amazing 1.090 and added 1 1/2 packets of Mad Millie cider yeast.

Good krausen from 24 hours. Then I started reading the posts on cider and realised that I had some decisions to make re still/sparkling and sweet/dry taste. I only bottle, no keg is available.

As the OG was so high, I assumed that this must be due to a lot of non-fermentables, and the final gravity would probably be around the 1.030 mark, leaving me with a very sweet cider, which I could live with, but would prefer semi-sweet / semi-dry.

I am now on day 8, and the krausen has reduced substantially in the last 24 hours to 0.1-0.2Hz. SG readings have been:
Day 0 = 1.090
Day 6 = 1.010
Day 8 = 0.999

The cider tastes fizzy and a fairly tart and pretty alcoholic. My hydrometer tells me that it is probably an amazing 12%, and I am scared that I will end up with apple wine rather than cider.

I know that there are ways with Camden tablets etc to inhibit the fermentation, but this will negate sparkling cider as I don't have a keg system and I really want sparkling, not still cider.

The wort is very cloudy, so I threw some isinglass finings into it yesterday to try to clear it out a bit, but it doesn't seem to have done much.

I have read about backsweetening, but again don't want to add apple juice as am worried I may get bottle bombs, so not really sure where to go from here, and the more tips I read on here, the more I see that none seems to apply to my situation.

I had planned to primary ferment 5 gallons for around 2 weeks, bottle a gallon and rack the rest into 4 X 1 gallon carboys for 2 weeks, and then bottle, as that seemed the most consistent generic advice for beginners. In each of the gallon carboys I was going to add different flavors to allow me to compare them head to head with:
1. tea
2. pineapple
3. no addition
4. hops - yes hops, hopped cider sounds amazing !
5. not to secondary ferment but straight to bottle.

One thought I had was maybe that in secondary fermentation for a couple of weeks, it may slow right down off the lees so that the cider doesn't get too tart. I was wondering if just adding some apple juice to the bottles (maybe 10%) instead of sugar would backsweeten without causing bottle bombs.

Any advice would be gratefully received. I want to end up with a sparkling cider, ideally mainly clear in color with a semi-sweet / semi-dry taste. I don't want a crabby old apple wine, or bottle bombs !

Christosmalaka

 

[WVMJ]

You have apple wine, the line between cider and wine is fuzzy and doesnt matter at home, if its you like it or not that matters. Camden doenst stop a fermentation, it fights bad bugs and oxidation. What country are you in as I have never heard of that yeast before, sound like a strong fermentor. Also sounds like you need a little patience to clear this, a little pectinase maybe? WVMJ

 

[gratus fermentatio]

I'd let that cider/wine sit till it clears, then think about aging/bottling.
Regards, GF.

 

[christosmalaka]

You have apple wine, the line between cider and wine is fuzzy and doesnt matter at home, if its you like it or not that matters. Camden doenst stop a fermentation, it fights bad bugs and oxidation. What country are you in as I have never heard of that yeast before, sound like a strong fermentor. Also sounds like you need a little patience to clear this, a little pectinase maybe? WVMJ

Thanks WVMJ.
Yeah I thought it may well be too late to rescue back my cider. Not really keen on wine, was after a long cool fizzy refreshing apple drink rather than a strong wine. I am in New Zealand, so that is what mid-summer is calling for . . . . Maybe I meant K metabisulphide to stop fermentation, but that would still leave me with something still rather than sparkly. I will try to get hold of some pectinase and leave it a while.

Also I would like something that we can drink quickly, I really can't be bothered aging it for months.

I used Mad Millie cider yeast (dry), made in UK. I revved it up before pitching using something I saw on this website under IPAs. I mixed the yeast with a small amount of wort (in this case apple juice with proportionally the same amount of brown and white sugar) and left it for 24 hours. Apparently leaving a concentrated yeast mixture in a small amount of wort to 'wake up' is a great way to rev it up, as the yeast selectively propagates to increase the specific enzymes ideal for that particular wort mixture, then hits the ground running when added to the wort proper.

So assuming that this ends up as apple wine, how do I stop this happening with my next brew ? Leave the sugar out ?

Thanks

Christos

 

[christosmalaka]

I'd let that cider/wine sit till it clears, then think about aging/bottling.
Regards, GF.

Hi Gratus.

I think that is probably the only option left. I'll throw some pectinase in. I would like to use my fermenting tub to start another batch, so will probably still rack off to a secondary fermentor so I can get another brew on the go.

Any advice on how to stop this happening next time, using the same apple juice ?

Cheers

Christos

 

[gratus fermentatio]

Hi Gratus.

I think that is probably the only option left. I'll throw some pectinase in. I would like to use my fermenting tub to start another batch, so will probably still rack off to a secondary fermentor so I can get another brew on the go.

Any advice on how to stop this happening next time, using the same apple juice ?

Cheers

Christos

Use the pectic enzyme at the beginning of the fermentation. Also, there's probably no need to pasteurize if you use campden tabs. Racking to secondary is fine, I do it all the time with cider/wine/mead/etc...
I never use finings, as I've never had a need for them & I've started out with some pretty murky looking juice. Time really is your friend. Rack that bad boy to secondary & get your primary going again. Leave it in secondary till it clears, then either bulk age or bottle.
Regards, GF.

 

[MarkKF]

You can always freeze and Jack it and have really good booze, too!

 

[Yooper]

Adding sugar to the juice seems like it would make a sweet product- but what happens is that the sugar is 100% fermentable so it increases the alcohol content and makes a thinner, drier, wine instead of a cider drink.

If you want to avoid that next time, use 0 added sugar at the beginning. Let it ferment out, and then stabilize with SORBATE (not sulfite or campden tablets which is the same thing) and then sweeten to taste before bottling. Or, pasteurize it if you want it fizzy and sweet (since once you inhibit the yeast, you can't bottle carb.

Since sugar is 100% fermentable, it is likely that your current apple wine will ferment to .990. That will be over 13%, and make a nice wine that will not really taste like apples but be a nice white wine. I make apple wine often, and it's one of our favorites. Just like with grape wines, that don't taste like grapes, my apple wine doesn't taste like apples. But it is still good.

 

[WVMJ]

So you guys are in summer right now, my apple trees have no leaves are are about to be very very cold this weekend. What you have already is apple wine I think you are looking for something like the brew as a stickie near the top, afflewine? WVMJ

 

[christosmalaka]

Thanks for the advice. So next time I will add clampdown tablets a couple of days before pitching the yeast, and add no sugar.
I put some pectinase in today and will give it a couple of days to clear before racking to secondary for a couple of weeks, adding the hops/pineapple etc as above.
Given that you were right and it is 0.990 on day ten and too tart, how much Apple juice would I need to put in each 500 ml bottle to back sweeten it, with just the sugar in the juice used to carbonate and give it some fizz, as well as make it more palatable ?

 

[christosmalaka]

Hey WVMJ, we are at the end of a lovely hot summer. The apples are on the trees but not soft and juicy yet, which is why am using store bought Apple juice.
Thanks for the tips