Cider apple trees

[wasully]

It's better to plant more trees than you will need to account for possible losses due to pests, diseases, accidents with a tractor etc. If you plant 8 you would have a good crop in 8 -10 years.

For standard trees. No way smaller semi dwarfs, or dwarfs take anywhere near that long.

 

[gregbathurst]

For standard trees. No way smaller semi dwarfs, or dwarfs take anywhere near that long.

Dwarf trees bear sooner but don't grow quicker (in fact they grow slower) so the crop from 8 dwarf trees after 10 years would be smaller than the crop from 8 standard trees.

 

[madscientist451]

[QUOTE="Jako, post: 8672303, member: 245850" 10 trees sounds like a ton of work am i wrong?[/QUOTE]
If you have deer in your area, putting up a fence is a lot of work and a big expense.
Here in PA we have lots of disease pressure and even if I choose disease resistant varieties there is some spraying involved. Then you have bugs and rodents, pruning, staking, mowing around the trees and mulching or spraying herbicide around the trees and the fence.
So if you don't want to do any "work" don't plant fruit trees.
I don't consider my efforts gardening/orcharding/cidermaking/brewing as work but everyone looks at things differently.
Just my observations, your results may vary.

 

[wasully]

Dwarf trees bear sooner but don't grow quicker (in fact they grow slower) so the crop from 8 dwarf trees after 10 years would be smaller than the crop from 8 standard trees.

Sure, in what is probably a much much larger space. You'd want to compare the amount of space cultivated more than number of trees.

I would consider wildlife pressure and your ideal crop size first though. I may not want to deal with standard or big semi dwarf trees. But deer and elk pressure where I'm at kinda dictate big trees or great fences.

Elk tree murder aside, from purely a capacity standpoint, there's no point to having 8 standard trees giving you 300 gallons of cider if you only wanted 30.

 

[gregbathurst]

Sure, in what is probably a much much larger space. You'd want to compare the amount of space cultivated more than number of trees.

I would consider wildlife pressure and your ideal crop size first though. I may not want to deal with standard or big semi dwarf trees. But deer and elk pressure where I'm at kinda dictate big trees or great fences.

Elk tree murder aside, from purely a capacity standpoint, there's no point to having 8 standard trees giving you 300 gallons of cider if you only wanted 30.

Can you ever have too many cider apples? Not in my opinion. Of curse if you lack space for big trees, dwarf trees make sense. I don't have elk but I do have wallabies, who love to pull down apple branches to eat the leaves and buds. A couple of years ago I put up a six foot fence to protect my orchard, works really well. Now I also put insect netting over my trees to keep out birds and insects, that also works really well, cheaper than buying a tree sprayer.

 

[dmf38]

Wickson, Golden Russet, Hewes, Northern Spy, Baldwin, Dolgo.

 

[Yooper]

I grow dwarf rescue, centennial, and dolgo crabapple trees. They give plenty of fruit, and make awesome cider.
Of course, I have to have a fence because the deer actually will push me aside to get to them if I've got it opened for harvesting! Because they grow quite wide, the fence has to be expanded. I did that for about 12 or so years, but now the branches are pushing at the fences and I'm ok with it. These trees were planted in 2001. They are way overripe now, but they are still delicious! Good size for eating as well as winemaking.

 

[denverdan]

Sure, in what is probably a much much larger space. You'd want to compare the amount of space cultivated more than number of trees.

I would consider wildlife pressure and your ideal crop size first though. I may not want to deal with standard or big semi dwarf trees. But deer and elk pressure where I'm at kinda dictate big trees or great fences.

Elk tree murder aside, from purely a capacity standpoint, there's no point to having 8 standard trees giving you 300 gallons of cider if you only wanted 30.

How have you delt with the deer and elk? I would have had apples ready to press by now had it not been for those annoying friends. The elk go through just about anything to get to the apple trees.... almost like growing crack to them. I'm still trying though and changing up how I protect the cider trees.

 

[wasully]

How have you delt with the deer and elk?

"My" trees are at a friends property, where they have a couple of outdoor dogs.

In the area it's pretty common to put up a 5 ft fence a few feet around the trunk until a tree is established enough an exploratory elk won't kill it. Maybe it's chainlink, maybe it's some 4x4(or 6) perimeter at 2, 4 and 6 feet high and a few feet away from the trunk.

 

[madscientist451]

Fencing off a whole orchard with something that is high enough that deer can't jump over is pretty expensive. I use the 4-5' high circle around the tree method.
The deer won't jump into the small circle surrounding the tree.
My sisters live in Colorado and tell me the Elk just can't be stopped. They'll push over any fence and are protected so you can't shoot them.
I was at a tree nursery today and they sold a nitrogen fertilizer called Milorganite:

They put it in small cotton bags and hang one bag from each newly planted tree. The Milorganite has a strong smell and I suppose that keeps the deer away.
Note that this grower has thousands of trees and has been there for several generations, so I figure they know what they are doing.
Here are the bags they use:

The bags need to be changed after 2-3 months.
I bought a bag of the Milorganite and 100 bags so I'll report back at the end of the season if it works.
The commercial grower also said that LEAD (specifically .30/06) is the best deterrent. I prefer 308, but everyone has their personal preferences.

 

[wasully]

Nah, the lead spray(gunpowder applicant) just makes you feel better. Can't legally apply it often enough to make a difference.