Chugger Pump Problems with Gravity Fed System

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IAmErickson

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Hi All,

I've been having something of an epic, ongoing saga with my Chugger pump. At this point, I'm sure I'm doing something wrong, but I can't figure out what it is.

Here's the Cliff's notes version of my situation: about 10 months ago, I upgraded from a 5 gallon partial-mash stove top brew system to a bigger, gravity fed all grain system. Basically, the top of my HLT is at about 8', the top of my mash tun is about 5.5', and the top of my kettle is about 3.5'. I have a plate chiller mounted on the work bench next to the top of my kettle, and in order to use it (and save my back when doing 10+ gallon batches), I purchased a Chugger pump from MoreBeer, which sits on the floor below my kettle.

The problem was that after one or two brews, the pump started crapping out. Like, it would take longer and longer to move fluid between point A and B, until it eventually just died entirely. Fortunately, the customer service at MoreBeer is phenomenal, and when I emailed them to explain the situation, they had a replacement in the mail for me within the hour. Only thing is, the replacement pump didn't even make it through the first brew session before it stopped being able to move fluid the 4' from the floor to my plate chiller (had to call a friend to help me heft a 10 gallon batch of boiling wort onto the top of a ladder so I could gravity feed it into the chiller). So I emailed MoreBeer again (I've been working with the same rep all along, so he knows the history). I explained exactly what I'm doing - keeping the pump below the level of the fluid, never plugging it in until it's primed with liquid, and never running it dry - and after a couple of questions to ensure I wasn't doing something wrong, he sent me a third pump.

I just had my first brew session with this third pump yesterday, and it's able to pump efficiently from the floor to the plate chiller, but it can't raise the water up the 8' of hose to reach the top of my HLT - it gets about 4.5' up the line, and can't seem to heft it anymore.

I know these pumps can be a little tricky to prime (eventually I was planning on putting bleeder valves on it, but for now I've just sort of been tapping the inlet line to eliminate air bubbles when priming), but by and large, every homebrew seems to use this style of pump, and none of them seem to have the problem that I've run into 3 times in a row, now.

So like I said, I'm sure I'm doing something wrong... I just can't figure out what it might be. I'm unlucky, but not so unlucky that I should get 3 units with the same malfunction in a row.

Has anyone else had a similar experience with their pump(s)? Is there something really obvious I'm missing here? If anyone has any suggestions, I'm all ears - at this point it's getting downright embarrassing to keep having to email customer service to get these things replaced every few weeks.
 
There is no way you got three bad pumps. We see minor issues with about 1 in a 100 pumps and even those are adjustment fixes rather than defective pumps. Please take a picture of how you have your pump setup and connected.
 
What size hose are you using? The chugger has a max head of 18' but that is only if hose is full bore. Even at 8' I would expect about half the flow of level pumping
Gotta be something simple
 
Thanks for the questions, everyone. As Bobby M requested, here are some pictures of my configuration:

This is configured to pump from the kettle to the plate chiller. This currently works (with the current pump):
Y28o8F8.jpg


This is configured to pump from the kettle to the hot liquor tank. This does not currently work (and in my entire history with three of these pumps, I've only gotten it to work about twice - both with the first pump):
pGspCOF.jpg


As you can see, I'm keeping the pump on the ground, below the level of the fluid coming out of the kettle. I'm always being very careful never to run it dry, and I pay special attention to make sure that the hoses aren't getting kinked anywhere. With the current pump, I can only manage to raise liquid to just about the level of that second shelf (that the mash/lauter tun sits on).

To answer Bellybuster - I was wondering if the hose bore might be an issue. I'm using 1/2" ID high temp tubing with stainless quick release fittings. I would think this is fairly standard, but if I should be using something different, please let me know.
m49wlgk.jpg


iijakii - no, I don't believe I have any problem with the plate chiller being clogged. I can pump fluid through it just fine at very respectable rates, and every time before I brew, I flush it with water until the output runs clear and no left over bits of grain or particulates come out. Plus, getting wort through the chiller isn't a problem (at least not with this pump... yet) - it's just getting it up into the HLT or mash tun that I can't get to work. It seems like it can pump horizontally though 8'+ of tubing just fine; it's only when I try to get it to pump vertically that it can't raise it more than about 4.5'.

I read an article in BYO about air pockets forming in the head if you have it configured wrong, but I've checked that, and just about anything else I can think of. Does anyone see anything that jumps out as a red flag?
 
the camlock fittings you're using... check the inside diameter of them! odds are 3/8 and restricting flow

You'll need to fully prime the pump head before getting correct flow.

I have 1 that does this from time to time, I turn pump off, then rotate it 90 each way to prime then start it up again


ALSO for giggles, if you have a dip tube in your hlt ... take it off, see what happens
 
Do your quick disconnects happen to be the hydrolic kind? (with the spring that prevents flow when disconnected) These tend to have a large pressure drop.
 
The fittings are an interesting point. They're cam lock style, similar to this:
CAMLOCK-TYPE-C-2T.jpg


That means my narrowest point between the outlet on the kettle and the delivery to my HLT is the ID of the barb on the fitting, which I measured at about 3/8". So would briefly pinching the diameter of the line from 1/2" to 3/8" be enough to cause the drop in pump strength that I'm seeing?
 
Definitely verify if you have a diptube in the pot. I've seen some pathetic pieces of hardware such as this one, and it's death to mag drive pumps.

11185.jpg
damn, looks like mine lol

But seriously, if you do have one of these, turn it horizontally
 
Sorry - I forgot to comment on the dip-tube point. No, I do not have one. The kettle feeds directly into a ball valve spigot, though it does have that same 3/8" barb on it. This is the exact kettle I'm using, if anyone is curious.

Actually, I've never even seen one of those dip-tubes before... what would the point of such a thing be? Just to knock an extra 1/2" or so of dead space from the kettle?

So is the general consensus that the problem is my fittings, and I should switch to the ones that Big Floppy recommend (thanks so much for the link, BTW - those are WAY cheaper than at my local homebrew place)?
 
try rocking the pump first... then orientate it so that the IN and OUT make a V shape in relation to the floor (might have to add a 90 to the output, difficult to see from low res pics), will be a simple easy trial
 
The fittings are an interesting point. They're cam lock style, similar to this:
CAMLOCK-TYPE-C-2T.jpg


That means my narrowest point between the outlet on the kettle and the delivery to my HLT is the ID of the barb on the fitting, which I measured at about 3/8". So would briefly pinching the diameter of the line from 1/2" to 3/8" be enough to cause the drop in pump strength that I'm seeing?

According to Cameron Hydraulic Data a sudden reduction from 1/2" to 3/8" is equivalent to .5' of straight pipe and a sudden enlargement from 3/8" to 1/2" is equivalent to .3' of straight pipe. That isn't too high of a pressure drop from the connectors.

Looking at just the discharge of the pump there is one fitting (round to 1' equivalent length), about 8' of hose and a 8' rise. This pump is only good for 17' head (I'm assuming of water at 60°C) http://www.chuggerpumps.com/media-center/chugger-pump-photo-gallery/397/So the question is Is the frictional losses greater than the remaining 11' water head?

I'd take the long hose that you have in the kettle and run it to a sink or bucket in the room at the same plane as the pump. If the pump works in this configuration then you know the restriction is on the downstream flow side of the pump, if it doesn't you know it's on the upstream.
 
I'd take the long hose that you have in the kettle and run it to a sink or bucket in the room at the same plane as the pump. If the pump works in this configuration then you know the restriction is on the downstream flow side of the pump, if it doesn't you know it's on the upstream.

Actually, I already did that test. When I was brewing with it and noticed that it couldn't make the climb to the HLT, I moved the hose down to the same plane as the pump - it started flowing again just fine. So it has no problem pumping through the full length of the 8' hose when it's horizontal and on the same plane as the pump - I only seem to have a problem when I ask it to go vertically more than about 4-5'.

I agree it doesn't seem like I should be seeing over a 10' drop in rise with just two 3/8" barb constrictions, but I'm not sure what else is left to check.
 
take your pump inbound hose and angle it so it doesn't have any horizontal/uphill travel

Make that V or as close as you can... no inbound hose going horizontal / uphill
 
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