Christmas ale recipe without adjuncts

[Velnerj]

Hello everyone,

I'm looking to put together a Christmas beer that brings the flavors of the season to a glass but I'd like to try this without adjuncts.

Here are my thoughts on a recipe:

Pale ale Malt (I prefer this over pilsner malt or normal 2 row) 50%
Abbey malt (brings honey, nuts?) 30%
Special B (dark fruit and caramel) 10%
Victory malt (nuts) 5%
Chocolate rye (really like the chocolate flavor this brings) 2%
Flaked oats (creamy mouthfeel) 3%

Voss kveik yeast (orange flavor)

Would this be a murky muddy mess or could it be an interesting attempt to meld these intended flavors?
Am I on to something or am I on something?

How would you build a holiday ale without adjuncts?

 

[TheMadKing]

I think that would result in a tasty scottish ale, but at the end of the day it's going to taste like beer

If you really want dark fruit, honey, and nuts and chocolate flavors you'll need to use flavorings unfortunately

 

[Velnerj]

I think that would result in a tasty scottish ale, but at the end of the day it's going to taste like beer

I think I could live with that though. It's not that I'm afraid of adjuncts, I've used them plenty... Just wanted to coax out some interesting flavors with beer ingredients.

 

[AlexKay]

Random thoughts in no particular order:

You’ll get more honey taste from honey malt than actual honey.

I don’t think you’ll notice mouthfeel from flaked oats until you get to at least 10%, maybe 20% or more. At least I never do. Mash high.

Briess Extra Special kind of has a toasted marshmallow taste that would work well with this idea.

 

[DBhomebrew]

I've got an English strong ale with 4% Special B. It's been a few months and they've mellowed a bit, but the Special B is still very much predominant. If I do the same recipe again I'm dropping it down to 2%. YMMV of course.

I too perceive very pleasant chocolate from chocolate rye.

 

[AlexKay]

I should say I like the line of thinking. I came up with a s’mores ale recipe that I’m going to brew in a few weeks.

25 pale ale, 25 Vienna, 20 Briess roast oats, 10 Briess extra special, 10 honey malt, 10 chocolate.

Also, I agree with DB on the Special B, which is why I’m not using any at all in my own recipe.

 

[AlexKay]

I've got an English strong ale with 4% Special B. It's been a few months and they've mellowed a bit, but the Special B is still very much predominant. If I do the same recipe again I'm dropping it down to 2%.

I just checked a recipe for an American Strong Ale I made a while back. Also 4% Special B, also too much.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

You’ll get more honey taste from honey malt than actual honey.

Yes, "basic" honey is often not interesting as an ingredient. On the other hand ...

... specialty honey (buckwheat, orange blossom, ...) can be used to get interesting flavors in the beer.

 

[Velnerj]

I've got an English strong ale with 4% Special B. It's been a few months and they've mellowed a bit, but the Special B is still very much predominant. If I do the same recipe again I'm dropping it down to 2%. YMMV of course.

I too perceive very pleasant chocolate from chocolate rye.

To be honest never used special B. What flavors are you getting that are standing out the most?

 

[DBhomebrew]

To be honest never used special B. What flavors are you getting that are standing out the most?

Stewed dark stone-fruit. Prune more than plum.

 

[Velnerj]

So after using a recipe calculator and taking in some of the advice above; this is the recipe I have concocted:

Fermentables (23L):
Pale ale Malt 2.5Kg
Abbey Malt 1.5 Kg (honey and nuts)
Biscuit Malt 500g (nuts and cookie)
Flaked Oats 500g (Mouthfeel?)
Special B 200g (Dark fruit and caramel) [just over 3%]
Chocolate Rye 200g (Chocolate)
Brown Sugar 500g (dryness + caramel/molasses)
Est. OG: 1.060

Hops (going for a Pine overtone)
Chinook 15g 60 min
Chinook 20g 15 min
Chinook 20g flameout
IBUs: 40

Yeast:
Voss Kveik (for orange flavor?)

Thoughts?

 

[Argyll Gargoyle]

Did you brew this?

 

[Velnerj]

Did you brew this?

Unfortunately no. Looks like I won't get it in this year... At least not before Christmas. Maybe as a winter warmer?

 

[Argyll Gargoyle]

I had the same idea that you did, which is how I found your post. I had been thinking of trying to get the orange flavor from hops; hadn’t considered using Voss. I haven’t ever used that yeast - how much orange does it throw?

 

[Velnerj]

I'm not actually sure about how much orange there is in Voss. I've only had one experience with it so far and it wasn't very good (my fault on process). But I've read many others that say there's a definite orange tone with Voss.

 

[Argyll Gargoyle]

I wonder how the combo of Voss and Idaho7 + Amarillo would turn out?

 

[DBhomebrew]

I've got a simple pale ale fermented with Voss.

1.062 36IBU all noble, all at 60m.

Finally, at 2+ months in the bottle, it's pleasantly drinkable. It has tons of orange, but I feel like it's more of an orange flavoring than the flavor of orange itself. That, plus the notorious kveik twang wasn't too tasty to me. The twang has finally dropped out leaving the kind of artificial tasting orange. It's ok, nothing I'm motivated to share.

One data point, YMMV.

 

[Argyll Gargoyle]

What temperature did you ferment your Voss pale ale at?

 

[DBhomebrew]

What temperature did you ferment your Voss pale ale at?

95F

 

[Argyll Gargoyle]

I kind of want to try something like a simple Guinness plus chocolate rye, fermented with Voss. Maybe dry hoped with something citrusy. Did you ever have one of those chocolate oranges at Christmas time? The artificial orange note might be just right for the milk chocolate from the chocolate rye…

 

[DBhomebrew]

I kind of want to try something like a simple Guinness plus chocolate rye, fermented with Voss. Maybe dry hoped with something citrusy. Did you ever have one of those chocolate oranges at Christmas time? The artificial orange note might be just right for the milk chocolate from the chocolate rye…

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/help-me-design-a-chocolate-orange-stout.622840/

 

[Argyll Gargoyle]

Ok - looks like a lot of others had this idea too. All of the examples I looked at seemed to end badly, hmm…

 

[IslandLizard]

For a good clean orange flavor, you can always steep a few pieces of orange zest in the wort after flameout at around 50-60°C. I'm talking about the thin, shaved-off colored part of orange skin. Use a sharp potato peeler, it gets just to the right depth, or a sharp knife. Do not use any of the white pith.

Instead, or in addition to, if you need more, you can add the orange zest to the beer at the end of fermentation, like "dry zesting." Or first extract the zest in alcohol for a few days and add the whole potion, as well as the zest. It's easily overdone, so start with small amounts. Or better, make samples on the side, and have a 2nd taster confirm when you think you got it, before adding it to the fermenter or bottling bucket. Palate fatigue sets in fast doing these things.

There's a recipe in our database for a Great Lakes Christmas Ale clone. I've brewed it twice and used only a small amount of the spices in there, to keep it subtle. They were best a year later, all spices had mellowed and blended nicely.