Chris Knight's brew rig

[tomroeder]

For you guys that are going to be manually controlling your flame (with a ball valve or other), I see no need for a regulator when you are on natural gas. The pressures are so low, and you are using a valve to control the flame. I am using electronic furnace valves on mine, (on/off) and they have built in regulators, so I used the regulators in them to tweak the flame just right since that will be the only control I have over the flame (on/off). But, if I was using manual valves for the burners, I would have never even considered a regulator. Just not enough pressure to justify one, IMHO. And remember Yambor44, that flame will behave differently with a brew pot sitting on top of it.

Hope I helped. Cheers!

 

[Yambor44]

For you guys that are going to be manually controlling your flame (with a ball valve or other), I see no need for a regulator when you are on natural gas. The pressures are so low, and you are using a valve to control the flame. I am using electronic furnace valves on mine, (on/off) and they have built in regulators, so I used the regulators in them to tweak the flame just right since that will be the only control I have over the flame (on/off). But, if I was using manual valves for the burners, I would have never even considered a regulator. Just not enough pressure to justify one, IMHO. And remember Yambor44, that flame will behave differently with a brew pot sitting on top of it.

Hope I helped. Cheers!

Absolutely! My good friend tried to tell me I didn't need one. But he's just an engineer so I figured I knew better. After all I am in pest control you know.

I never used one on my other rig but Chris' flames looked WAY better than mine did so I thought the regulator might help perfect my flame. Good to know.

I will say that these do burn better than my other NG burners. I backed them way down and the flame never got orange/yellow.

Any idea why the regulator didn't regulate? I would "assume" that if I screwed the set screw all the way in it would drop the flame or extinguish it altogether. ???

 

[tomroeder]

I would have thought so....not sure why....my regulators on my gas valves have very fine tuning....you can actually turn them down and put the flame out if you want. Maybe they are for LP? Maybe they sent you the wrong ones...maybe the range is wrong? Maybe it is for commercial higher environments? Are there more than one screw you can turn for adjustment?

 

[tomroeder]

For you guys that are going to be manually controlling your flame (with a ball valve or other), I see no need for a regulator when you are on natural gas. The pressures are so low, and you are using a valve to control the flame. I am using electronic furnace valves on mine, (on/off) and they have built in regulators, so I used the regulators in them to tweak the flame just right since that will be the only control I have over the flame (on/off). But, if I was using manual valves for the burners, I would have never even considered a regulator. Just not enough pressure to justify one, IMHO. And remember Yambor44, that flame will behave differently with a brew pot sitting on top of it.

Hope I helped. Cheers!

Actually, I have given it some thought, and I can see why you guys with manual control would want a regulator. You probably can not see your flame once the pot is on it, and when you are burning to full boil, when you want your burner to be full flame, you want the be able to open the valve wide open and know your flame is exactly where you want it at it's peak. So, I retract my previous statement.

Yambor: I hope you get your regulator figured out!!

 

[Yambor44]

I would have thought so....not sure why....my regulators on my gas valves have very fine tuning....you can actually turn them down and put the flame out if you want. Maybe they are for LP? Maybe they sent you the wrong ones...maybe the range is wrong? Maybe it is for commercial higher environments? Are there more than one screw you can turn for adjustment?

One screw. Same exact one that Chris is using. Copied his idea. ???

 

[tomroeder]

Well, without actually twiddling with it myself, I would say there is a good possibility they sold you a bad regulator. May want to call the company.

 

[Yambor44]

Chris, did you have any problems with the threads being almost non existent on your burners? I tried mine out any way but it leaked. Would not tighten down sufficiently. Found all of the tips were loose as well once I got down testing it.



Here's another one right out of the package, untested.

 

[tomroeder]

looks like someone has already been monkeying around with it and stripped the threads....or poor manufacture. I have the 23 tips burners and one of mine came destroyed.

 

[Yambor44]

On another thread about the ten tip burners, one of the reps where I bought mine from said and I quote "Thirdly, the reason we have long ship times on those multijet burners is because we buy them in bulk, and then we test them all before we ship them out." Maybe that's the reason. Just checked the third one and it looks the same. I have an email into them.

 

[tomroeder]

quality imports from china.....gotta love it. At least you have your other brew stand so that you can still AG brew in the interim.....

 

[Yambor44]

quality imports from china.....gotta love it. At least you have your other brew stand so that you can still AG brew in the interim.....

Uh, yeah....about that.... Sold it actually the day before I got my new stand. Thats why I'm a little stressed about getting this one dialed in. But hey, it's only beer right? I've got 3 kegs on tap, 3 IIPA's all over 9% and eight empty kegs. And I switched to 10 gallon kettles to brew 5 gallon batches. Guess I'll have some brewing to do once I get it figured out. The burner thing is no biggey, but taking over 90 minutes to bring 8 gallons to a boil has my stumped.

 

[tomroeder]

that sucks about you selling your old rig...oh well....

that seems like a long, long time to bring 8 gal to a boil....when I first set up mine, it took me 31 minutes to bring 5 gal of 50 deg (f) water to a boil. That seems to be about the norm for these kind of burners.

Hard to tell from your pics, but it looks like your flame is alright....My burners are 23 tip choked down to 13 tips. Maybe you could consider, space allowing, switching out the 10 tip burner for a 23 tip? Maybe just for when you are doing 10 gal batches? my 23 tip burners are 8.5" across, with 1/2" npt inlet. Shoot a video of it for youtube if you can, maybe we can all see your flame and compare it with ours...on one of my videos, my fourth one I think, I show my flames, do they resemble yours?

 

[Yambor44]

Very simlilar. Maybe I need to turn them down a tad. Seems weird to turn em down though to get it to boil quicker. I used the 20 tip NG with 12 tips closed off on my old unit, no regulator and it worked real good. But not as blue as Chris' which is why I was trying to follow his lead.

 

[tomroeder]

Well, those tips are very picky about the velocity of the gas flowing through them. That is why they are finicky, and you may need to turn them down. The gas flowing through may be moving too fast to pull air through the holes in the side (venturi maybe?). That flow has to be juuuuust right....Too rich won't burn as (well)hot as an ideal mixture, just like a carb on an engine

 

[willynilly]

Yambor44 do you have a way to meausure the amount of gas going through the burner. If you can verify the INput, it will help you to better understand what is happening on the OUTput.

I just ran the numbers for my DigiBrew to get 8 gallons to boiling and it is right at 20 minutes with electric (60F-Boil)

It is easier to calculate the BTUs with electric obviously, but this is why if you have a way to measure the gas INput and then look at the output in terms of BTUs to transferred to the kettle, you may be able to get a clearer picture of what is happening. What BTU is the burner rated at with 10 tips?

 

[Yambor44]

Now we are getting beyond my comprehension (that didn't take long, did it? ). Is there a way that I can measure it or will I need a lumber or HVAC person?

The burners themselves are rated at 70,000 BTU's. As I said in CK's thread, I do have that regulator on it and it doesn't seem to regulate at all. Screw it all the way in and it keeps right on burning at what appears to be no change. Maybe I should take that off too. Never used one before.

 

[tomroeder]

do you have a ball or gate valve you can put in place of the regulator and play with your flame that way as an experiment?

 

[willynilly]

Now we are getting beyond my comprehension (that didn't take long, did it? ). Is there a way that I can measure it or will I need a lumber or HVAC person?

The burners themselves are rated at 70,000 BTU's. As I said in CK's thread, I do have that regulator on it and it doesn't seem to regulate at all. Screw it all the way in and it keeps right on burning at what appears to be no change. Maybe I should take that off too. Never used one before.

Is it NG? Can you take meter readings before and after an hour burn/test? You can then find the qty of gas used and determine the # of BTUs the burner is producing, assuming it is burning the gas.

 

[tomroeder]

I have also heard of these places that sell these burners shipping LP gas ones instead of NG ones...but I don't think that they would produce this result....don't know for sure though

 

[Yambor44]

Went ahead and told the welder to remove the guards and leave them off for the time being. He will add 2" SS tubing from each side of the burner area. This should give me 8" between each on front to back and side to side. Then I will test it again and see what my numbers are.

If we end up adding the wind guards later, they will be dropped down to leave at least 3 inches of gap at the top.

 

[tomroeder]

And if you end up putting them back on, you could just drill a bunch of holes (perforate) them, that could be pretty effective as well. Did you take the regulator out of line?

 

[Yambor44]

And if you end up putting them back on, you could just drill a bunch of holes (perforate) them, that could be pretty effective as well. Did you take the regulator out of line?

First of all let me apologize to Chris for HJ this thread!! Even though I am coping his rig ideas and felt this was the place for the questions, I feel bad. I was just trying to get answers quickly as my beer is dwindling away and I don't have a brew system till this one gets completed properly.

I have a PM into Chris with questions regarding the regulator and such but have not heard back from him yet. Lets continue this on the other thread where I was asking for help (here).

Sorry again, Chris.

 

[chrisknight]

I like the cover you put on the pump Is that a temporary thing?

HAHA!! I know its ghetto! I'm in the process of bending up a piece of aluminum for a shield and will support it off of one of the bolts that hold down the pump. The shield has already come in handy. I strongly urge those using this pump to shield the motor winding vents in the back.

 

[chrisknight]

Chris, did you have any problems with the threads being almost non existent on your burners? I tried mine out any way but it leaked. Would not tighten down sufficiently. Found all of the tips were loose as well once I got down testing it.

I remember that the threads were not very deep but looks nothing like yours. Yours looks stripped. bummer,..

 

[chrisknight]

First of all let me apologize to Chris for HJ this thread!! Even though I am coping his rig ideas and felt this was the place for the questions, I feel bad. I was just trying to get answers quickly as my beer is dwindling away and I don't have a brew system till this one gets completed properly.

I have a PM into Chris with questions regarding the regulator and such but have not heard back from him yet. Lets continue this on the other thread where I was asking for help (here).

Sorry again, Chris.

No problem at all man. PM sent.

 

[Yambor44]

I remember that the threads were not very deep but looks nothing like yours. Yours looks stripped. bummer,..

I sent them the same pictures and they called back and told me that was the pipe dope they used to test them. I explained that the burner wouldn't really tighten down and I was afraid I would strip it and that it leaked a little. The said to add more pipe dope. HAHAHAHA! I can't win with this thing. I will prevail though!

 

[SOB]

HAHA!! I know its ghetto! I'm in the process of bending up a piece of aluminum for a shield and will support it off of one of the bolts that hold down the pump. The shield has already come in handy. I strongly urge those using this pump to shield the motor winding vents in the back.

I figured as much...just giving you some $hit...

I took mine and mounted it up underneath my wood rig so it's kinda tucked back under the top. Still anxious to use it. Between projects this spring and now traveling for work I have only brewed once since I got the pump (almost 2 months)!

 

[chrisknight]

I figured as much...just giving you some $hit...

I took mine and mounted it up underneath my wood rig so it's kinda tucked back under the top. Still anxious to use it. Between projects this spring and now traveling for work I have only brewed once since I got the pump (almost 2 months)!

I went through a spell like that. The b1tch about this pump is that its not self priming, but once you figure out the "trick" its fairly painless to use.

 

[SOB]

Yeah, I figured it out the one time I used it. It's pretty easy except I have no valve on my BK so I have to get a little "creative" there...

 

[pickles]

can I ask what the "trick" is?

 

[5_Thumbs]

Chris - Where did you purchase the lids for your keggles??? Thanks! Awesome rig bud!

 

[chrisknight]

can I ask what the "trick" is?

Oh... You have to hold your mouth just right, and I believe Orions nebula has to be in line with the mayonnaise in your freg.
What?!?

Just be sure to always keep the pump head full of liquid, and if you get into a jam, lower the end of the output hose lower than the input hose.

You can also suck prime the pump. This wouldn't be so bad on the HLT drain or mash transfers, but, you'll want to be sure you're clean and sanitized after the boil. (duh) I don't do that method mainly because I have bad flashbacks from a bad gas siphon episode.

I always get started with setting up the pump early. I have an hour to kill during the boil so I know that the next time I use the pump I'll be going from the kettle, to the pump, to the chiller, back to the kettle to recycle the chill until I get down to correct temps. I'll get it all set up and prime up the pump then shut off the output of the pump and unplug it. Whammo, your set up to recycle the last 15 minutes of the boil, all you have to do is turn the pump on and open the valve. Then kill the output, and redirect it to the fermenter.

Really all I'm trying to say is don't wait till the last minute to get set up.

Oh, and I use a ton of rice hulls in my mash.

 

[chrisknight]

Chris - Where did you purchase the lids for your keggles??? Thanks! Awesome rig bud!

Thanks. I only have one lid. Its the lid that came with my previous 8 gallon SS kettle and almost fits correctly on a keg.

 

[Yambor44]

Chris - Where did you purchase the lids for your keggles??? Thanks! Awesome rig bud!

Whether you want the lid to fit on the top of the keggle (above the handles like Chris') or directly on your cut-out, try a restaurant supply place. My daughters bought me three lids for Christmas a few years back but they fit (perfectly) on the top-top. I wanted them to fit the cut-out so I took them back, traded them for the next size smaller and they fit perfectly in the cut-out. All cut-outs are different of course so YMMV.

 

[EarthBound]

Pimpin' rig, buddy!

 

[J-Malone]

Chris, Love the rig and I have watched your youtube vids also....great stuff...I am curious about the dimensions of the rig. What size tubing did you use? 2x2? I am currently in the planning stages of a similar brutus style rig (I agree with the automation thoughts kind of taking the fun out of it)...Can you give me a reason why you had the gas manifold tig welded and not mig like the rest of the stand? I am a welding tard...

thanks

JM

 

[skippyf16]

Chris, Love the rig and I have watched your youtube vids also....great stuff...I am curious about the dimensions of the rig. What size tubing did you use? 2x2? I am currently in the planning stages of a similar brutus style rig (I agree with the automation thoughts kind of taking the fun out of it)...Can you give me a reason why you had the gas manifold tig welded and not mig like the rest of the stand? I am a welding tard...

thanks

JM

TIG is more precise and provides a greater chance of no leaks in the NG manifold.

 

[gifty74]

It looks like it is made of nitrile? Maybe PVC? If so, good deal, those should work well with natural gas. I found that my first choice, EPDM rubber, which is common for rubber hose, has a bad reaction with natural gas.

Looking good! Have you tested it to see how long it takes to bring 5 gal of water to a boil?

Kind of reviving this thread. I am looking to do the same and actually ordered "general purpose" rubber hose to go from my gas outlet (yet to be installed) to my rig. I saw this quote above and started looking into it because someone else had recommended this hose in another thread. I guess they didn't do much research because if you do a search here you can see that if you select Natural Gas as the chemical, and EPDM (synthetic rubber) as the material, the reaction is "Severe". Not good. PVC has "Excellent" compatibility with NG so as you say, definitely the material to use.