Chocolate stout or Porter

[DocDriza]

I would like to make a chocolate porter or stout. I need help understanding the difference between what cocoa powder and cocoa nibs would do to my beer. There are some chocolate beers that taste like hot chocolate or chocolate milk. That is something I would like to get away from. Thanks in advance for the help.

 

[gregjohnston]

Based on my knowledge of chocolate (rather than chocolate beer-making!) you'll want to go with nibs. Cocoa nibs are a bit like coffee beans in texture. They have flavor compounds and oils but will not dissolve. To process them they'd be ground up first. Cocoa powder on the other hand likely includes cocoa butter, milk, sugar, etc. and will melt or dissolve into a chocolate goo.

I've used cocoa nibs in my coffee maker for some great pseudo-mocha. You get hints of chocolatey complexity with no chocolate-bar taste.

 

[Epimetheus]

Greg, I respectfully disagree about the cocoa powder. Perhaps you are thinking of instant cocoa milk packets with sugar and powdered milk.

Cocoa powder is made of dried and ground cocoa beans, most of the cocoa butter has been pressed out. There is no milk or sugar.

Cocoa nibs are the whole dried beans with all the cocoa butter.

I can't say which is better, brewers use both with success.

Here is an HBT thread that discusses experiences with both unsweetened powder and nibs.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/cocoa-powder-addition-porter-286789/

 

[BlueHouseBrewhaus]

I have never used the powder but have heard it can leave gritty feel. I have used nibs with excellent results. They should be coarsely crushed first. If they are unroasted, you can spread them on a cookie sheet and bake 30 minutes at 350. Then soak them in a small amount of vodka for 3 days and add the whole mix to secondary or primary once fermentation has stopped. Usually 3 or 4 ounces is good for a hint of chocolate. Because nibs are pure cacao, they are bitter so you may want to back off on your hops, too.

 

[The_Bishop]

When you bake them, stick around the oven. When they start smelling like brownies they're done, and they go from "awesome chocolate" to "acrid burned crap" very, very fast. In my experience it's less than 30 minutes.

 

[DocDriza]

When you bake them, stick around the oven. When they start smelling like brownies they're done, and they go from "awesome chocolate" to "acrid burned crap" very, very fast. In my experience it's less than 30 minutes.

Thanks everybody, I like the idea of baking the nibs. If I bake them and they smell like brownies, will that brownie flavor transfer into the beer? Really guys, this is awesome information.


[edit] Oh, I also wanted to ask if it is better to have a chocolate porter or a chocolate stout. If i have to brew them both to find out then fine...I guess I'll have more beer to brew...

 

[The_Bishop]

No, they're still bitter chocolate.

 

[NYShooterGuy]

Would you be able to avoid the vodka by cooling the foil and nibs in the fridge and wrapping them or even better, a sanitized ball or mason jar? I've always tried to find a non-vodka solution to adding adjuncts. Just figured the foil, nibs and anything else in a 350 degree oven will be sanitary and could be cooled in a sterile mason jar.

What do you guys think?

 

[Queequeg]

I have never used chocolate adjuncts and normally try to get that chocolate flavour with malt only. After some research I decided to use chocolate extract for my current stout. The advantage of extract is that you avoid the oils of nibs and grittiness of cocoa powder. Its also 40% ethanol so should be quite sanitary.

 

[microbusbrewery]

Would you be able to avoid the vodka by cooling the foil and nibs in the fridge and wrapping them or even better, a sanitized ball or mason jar? I've always tried to find a non-vodka solution to adding adjuncts. Just figured the foil, nibs and anything else in a 350 degree oven will be sanitary and could be cooled in a sterile mason jar.

What do you guys think?

The purpose of the vodka is to help extract the flavor and aroma from the nib. A lot of those compounds are very soluble in alcohol.

 

[NYShooterGuy]

The purpose of the vodka is to help extract the flavor and aroma from the nib. A lot of those compounds are very soluble in alcohol.

So wouldn't the alcohol in the beer extract the flavors?

 

[Dopeybrew]

So wouldn't the alcohol in the beer extract the flavors?

It does but not as effectively as vodka.

In regards to nibs vs coco powder. I use both. To avoid the grittiness I cold crash near freezing(34ºf) for several days. It turns the powder into a sludge but it gets rid of the grittiness. I add powder to the boil 5 mins before flameout. I add the nibs in secondary for 2 weeks.

In the end it comes out similar to a Youngs Double Chocolate Stout.

 

[TasunkaWitko]

Doc - you might consider looking more at the roasted malts rather than actual cocoa; the recipe I have for chocolate maple porter (you can use a neutral sugar for fermentation and carbonation rather than maple, if you prefer), doesn't use cocoa at all, but when I was brewing it, I definitely got the characteristics due to the dark roasts of the malts. It uses chocolate and caramel malt as well as black patent malt. The result is definitely more "sophisticated" and less candy-like.

Also, consider the more earthy English hops (such as Fuggle, or possibly Brambling Cross or Whitebread Golding) in order to keep with the theme.

Hope this helps -

Ron

 

[BlueHouseBrewhaus]

Another hint to reduce the bitterness of the nibs and bring out a more chocolatey flavor is to include a couple of cut up vanilla beans with the nibs/vodka mix for the secondary. Most chocolate bars actually include some vanilla. Split the beans, scrape out the guts, cut them up and put the whole mess, guts included, in the vodka with the nibs.

 

[rocketsan]

Make a cocoa powder slurry with boiling water...then add to boil...


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[Natdavis777]

I have two milk stouts on tap currently and I ground and soaked 4oz cacao nibs in. Cup of vodka for a week. Strained the liquid then split in both batches. The cocoa flavor is def there. One of the best beers I've brewed for sure. The one with coffee is amazing. I've never used powder, but my vote is for the nibs


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[DocDriza]

When you guys use vodka, are you using the cheap bottom shelf vodka?

 

[Natdavis777]

When you guys use vodka, are you using the cheap bottom shelf vodka?

Negative Ghostrider... Ive read against using cheap vodka (Burnetts, Skol, etc) but you dont need to go with Grey Goose or Belvadier either.

I use Kettle One. A nice "down the middle" vodka that Ive had good outcomes with. I dont drink much vodka as it is, so one bottle pretty much goes to extracts for beer.