Chilling

[smitty8202]

So my plan is to be all-grain by summer. I am piecing together equipment and am looking at getting a 10 gallon kettle with ball valve thermometer and sight glass. My question is is it ok to use an ice bath like I am currently doing or do I need to invest in a wort chiller

 

[Culbetron]

Wort chiller should absolutely be the next piece of gear you buy/make.

It's actually very cheap to make one and will improve your brew day and your life by 134%.

 

[cyberbrew]

+1 for a wort chiller. Also, if you're investing in a new kettle, I found that bumping up to a 15 gal kettle made more sense for me. That way a 10 gal batch is doable...

 

[BadWolfBrewing]

Don't immediately discount no-chill. Saves time / equipment / water.

The hop scheduling gets complicated at times, but aside from that it is great.

 

[Culbetron]

You're only allowed to no-chill your wort if you are Australian. So buy some copper coil, some tubing, and a couple hose clamps.

 

[BadWolfBrewing]

You're only allowed to no-chill your wort if you are Australian. So buy some copper coil, some tubing, and a couple hose clamps.

I'm assuming this was meant in jest, though its hard to tell in a forum.

I chilled for years, but about a year ago tried no-chilling. The results? Less equipment, shorter brew day, less wasted water (which is important to those outside of Australia too).

Aside from the learning curve for the hop schedule, there's been no down side.

Not saying its the best / only way to go, but might be worth considering.

 

[MaxStout]

I second the idea of going with a 15 gallon BK for all-grain. And if you're going to spend the money on a decent kettle, it's not much to add $50 for an immersion chiller.

 

[blizz81]

If you do opt for an immersion chiller, the only way I would advise that it would be effective is with a submersible pump + a bucket of ice water, especially given you are in CA. I find this method to be fine, but some people bristle at the thought of the expense of a pump (cheap pond pumps at Harbor Freight) + the expense and / or effort of getting / making enough ice.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

Ball valve is awesome. Not too big a fan of the side mounted thermometers, and sight glass seems a little overkill, I'd rather use my ss ruler that I got for all of $4.

The best recommendation for new brewers is to get a 10~ ss kettle with a ball valve, get an accurate thermometer, and a metal ruler to determine volumes. Biab instead od mash tun. If you plan on doing super high og, or ten gallon batches, maybe get a 15 gal kettle. But the sweet spot for me was scoring a 9gal kettle on black friday with a ball valve for $40. Also look into a cheap heat stick to speed things up.

I've no chilled to success multiple times, and live in Michigan where the water is cold and plentiful. I have two immersion chillers I'm looking to sell on CL since it's much easier to just throw the lid on and pitch in the morning.

Between the ball valve, a simple heat stick, biab, and no chill, I can do a brew day in about 4 hours on average. Less if I have a mind on time management. Never have to lift or do much besides mind the boil over and sparge a little on high og brews.

 

[homebrewdr]

I'm a minimalist stove-top apartment all grain brewer and keep myself on a budget. I know what its like to not want to splurge for that chiller. It took me 2 years of brewing to do so. My ice bath (in a bathtub) would cool just as fast with constant attention (and a bunch of Tupperware filled with ice), but the chiller is so much easier. You won't have to lift your wort filled pot at all after a 6 hour all grain brew session. It also makes me feel cool (LOL) so I recommend it.

Additionally, it could make your beer better. With a slow chill or a no chill method, you are technically supposed to adjust your hop schedule.

If its money you are looking to save, I'd cut down on the kettle and spend that money on the chiller. I snagged my 9 gallon SS mash tun/boil kettle for $40 from AIH (Black Friday Deal) with a welded port for a ball valve ($20). Kettle is thick, welded, and manly. I prefer the portable thermometer (not attached) and never needed or wanted a sight glass. Or you could save money by going with an aluminum brew pot. John Palmer says its A-OK.

 

[SmCranf]

I'm assuming this was meant in jest, though its hard to tell in a forum.

I chilled for years, but about a year ago tried no-chilling. The results? Less equipment, shorter brew day, less wasted water (which is important to those outside of Australia too).

Aside from the learning curve for the hop schedule, there's been no down side.

Not saying its the best / only way to go, but might be worth considering.

What have you changed about your hop schedule? I am a no chiller as well!

 

[RM-MN]

Why are you waiting for summer to start all grain brewing? Get thyself a paint strainer bag and do a half size batch in the pot you already have. If you have your own mill or can have grains double crushed at your LHBS, you can be doing all grain today. There's a whole subsection at the top of this all grain section called BIAB Brewing with lots of information on brew in a bag.

 

[BadWolfBrewing]

What have you changed about your hop schedule? I am a no chiller as well!

For most beers with hop flavor I do all the bittering and flavor hop additions after I turn the boil off. I count them all as a 30 minute addition when calculating bitterness. I just stick the hops in the conical before transferring the boiling wort.

All aroma additions are dry hopped.

 

[smitty8202]

Why are you waiting for summer to start all grain brewing? Get thyself a paint strainer bag and do a half size batch in the pot you already have. If you have your own mill or can have grains double crushed at your LHBS, you can be doing all grain today. There's a whole subsection at the top of this all grain section called BIAB Brewing with lots of information on brew in a bag.

Well 1 money and 2 I want to be able to full boils for 5 gallons batches. Don't want to mess with trying to figure out the math and adjust everything.

 

[MaxStout]

Why are you waiting for summer to start all grain brewing? Get thyself a paint strainer bag and do a half size batch in the pot you already have. If you have your own mill or can have grains double crushed at your LHBS, you can be doing all grain today. There's a whole subsection at the top of this all grain section called BIAB Brewing with lots of information on brew in a bag.

That's what I do during these long, cold winters. I don't enjoy sitting in an unheated garage when it's single digits.

A BIAB half-batch on the stove gets me 1 case of homebrew. Better than no homebrew. And it's easy to scale a batch to half. Bonus: I usually don't need to make a starter.

 

[RM-MN]

Well 1 money and 2 I want to be able to full boils for 5 gallons batches. Don't want to mess with trying to figure out the math and adjust everything.

Well first the money part. A pair of paint strainer bags at my Home Depot cost me $3.78 plus tax. The grains for a half batch of beer should cost you about 1/3 as much as an extract kit so the difference would pay for the paint strainer bags on the first batch. A half batch makes a case of 12oz bottles. Better than no batch at all.:rockin:

 

[Cottonmouth]

Some of my best beers were no chill. Glad to see there are some brave souls overcoming the stigma attached to no chill.

 

[Culbetron]

Ok you crazy Australians, you've interested me enough to do a little research into no-chillin

 

[Cottonmouth]

I didn't use the Aussie "cube" method. As soon as the boil was done the lid was placed on the pot with binder clips and a starsan soaked towel was draped over the pot just to be on the safe side until cooled. The hardest part was getting the bittering part of the hop schedule right. I used FWH and mostly late addition hops. IIRC I used something like 60% of a normal bittering addition.

 

[SmCranf]

I didn't use the Aussie "cube" method. As soon as the boil was done the lid was placed on the pot with binder clips and a starsan soaked towel was draped over the pot just to be on the safe side until cooled. The hardest part was getting the bittering part of the hop schedule right. I used FWH and mostly late addition hops. IIRC I used something like 60% of a normal bittering addition.

I usually get mine down to carboy temp (less than 140) in about an hour or hour and a half by stirring, never really changed the hop schedule though...and then I wait until the morning to pitch my yeast

 

[Liveforliving]

+1 for a wort chiller. Also, if you're investing in a new kettle, I found that bumping up to a 15 gal kettle made more sense for me. That way a 10 gal batch is doable...

Agreed on bumping up to 15 gallon. At that point, I'd get a plate chiller, an immersion chiller would take too long.

 

[BadWolfBrewing]

I usually get mine down to carboy temp (less than 140) in about an hour or hour and a half by stirring, never really changed the hop schedule though...and then I wait until the morning to pitch my yeast

In my case, I have an insulated stainless conical (insulation for ferm temp control, but its hard to take off even when empty, much less when full).

Even in my 60 deg basement, its not below 70 degs for at least 30 hours. So, its above that isomerization temp for a long time.

I'm still dialing in the bitterness calculations. Counting cube hops as 30 minutes is my current method, and thats where I get all the flavor from as well. For bigger IPAs when I want more bitterness I'll FWH.

Without an aroma addition I've found I need to pretty aggressively dry hop, and the aroma doesn't seem to stick around for long once its kegged. I'm thinking about waiting until its ~140 and adding more hops while its cooling down, to see if maybe that helps act like a traditional aroma addition.

 

[cyberbrew]

Agreed on bumping up to 15 gallon. At that point, I'd get a plate chiller, an immersion chiller would take too long.

FWIW, I have no problem chilling a 10 gallon batch with my immersion chiller (a short 25', 3/8" copper). From boil to ~70 takes about 10 mins in winter, and about 15 in summer...

 

[bionut]

...From boil to ~70 takes about 10 mins in winter, and about 15 in summer...

What is the cold water temp on your faucet? I feel that i can't chill 5 gallons to lesser than 85°F with my chiller (a big one, 50' of 3/8" tubing, ribcage model), altough i never measured the time it take to reach 85°F, i just try the water that comes out of the chiller, if it's cold i supose that it won't chill the wort further more and stop.
What is the key to get the wort to 70°F? A longer time even if the exit water is cold? This time of year my cold water is around 60°F i think, but i will check to be sure.

 

[brew_ny]

You're only allowed to no-chill your wort if you are Australian.

g'day mate

 

[cyberbrew]

What is the cold water temp on your faucet? I feel that i can't chill 5 gallons to lesser than 85°F with my chiller (a big one, 50' of 3/8" tubing, ribcage model), altough i never measured the time it take to reach 85°F, i just try the water that comes out of the chiller, if it's cold i supose that it won't chill the wort further more and stop.
What is the key to get the wort to 70°F? A longer time even if the exit water is cold? This time of year my cold water is around 60°F i think, but i will check to be sure.

My water in the winter is in the upper 40s, in the summer it's in the low 60's. For me, getting the wort down to 70 (or low 70s) is a factor of time the chiller is in contact with the wort and how much I'm able to agitate (I don't have recirculation) the wort to get the highest efficiency.

Feeling the water that is coming out of the chiller is only so good, it gives you a sense of whether you've reached equilibrium, but you won't know for sure unless you take the temp of the wort...particularly as the wort approaches the temp of the tap water.

 

[Gavin C]

You may also want to consider a plate chiller.

North Texas tap water is warm most of the year. I use a prechiller in an ice bucket to cool my tap water before it enters the plate chiller. 9 mins to cool my brews 5.5 gallon batches to the FV

I work with my kitchen faucet so as not to have to go in and out during brewday with garden hose. Just seems to work better to fit my needs this way.

Plate chiller and pump

If you are looking at immersion chillers and you have cool tap water year round you might consider the Hydra from Jadedbrewing. http://jadedbrewing.com/products/the-hydra

 

[bionut]

I don't have a ball valve installed on my kettle, altough i bought one i never installed it. I am not sure i will do it...
I can manage the cost of plate chiller, but the wort pump is way out of my budget.
If i could get hoppy beers with no-chill i would go that way, but i tryed no chill 2 times without great results (hop aroma wise).

 

[MaxStout]

What is the cold water temp on your faucet? I feel that i can't chill 5 gallons to lesser than 85°F with my chiller (a big one, 50' of 3/8" tubing, ribcage model), altough i never measured the time it take to reach 85°F, i just try the water that comes out of the chiller, if it's cold i supose that it won't chill the wort further more and stop.
What is the key to get the wort to 70°F? A longer time even if the exit water is cold? This time of year my cold water is around 60°F i think, but i will check to be sure.

With 60 degree tap water you should be getting your wort much lower than 85, especially with a 50' ribcage type. You should be able to get to 70, maybe a bit lower. Do you gently agitate the chiller every couple minutes or so to ensure good heat transfer?

 

[bionut]

I use a SS apoon to agitate the wort, but as i said before, i stop the chilling when the exit water isn't hot anymore. Probably i should let it go for a longer time? I never measured how much time does chilling takes me.