Chilling wort without wort chiller.

[Hardleft]

I leave a tub half full of water outside overnight once the weather gets cold and then put the whole kettle in it. Its free and easy. If it wasnt col enough during the night, I throw a few frozen water bottles in.

Once I take the kettle out, rack to the fermenter, and pitch my yeast, I can move the tub of water inside and put the fermenter in the tub to help buffer temperature changes during fermentation.

You can also soak/clean bottles in it.

 

[HomerJR]

Maybe a dumb comment, but I thought the salt helps to melt the ice. I'm thinking this because they sprinkle salt on the roads when they are snowy or icy.
???

I know this is an old thread and all, and my comment is probably a little OT , but there was an episode of Mythbusters that determined the fastest way to cool a sixer is to put it in iced salt water. Got down to 36*F in 5 minutes. When I want to chill a fast cold one, that's what I do.

 

[Revvy]

I know this is an old thread and all, and my comment is probably a little OT , but there was an episode of Mythbusters that determined the fastest way to cool a sixer is to put it in iced salt water. Got down to 36*F in 5 minutes. When I want to chill a fast cold one, that's what I do.

And that's why I used to add it to my waterbath when before I got my wort chiller.

You also add it when you make hand churned ice-cream....

For Desredata, a little "science 101." :fro:

Adding salt to the ice/water mix causes a temperature drop that slows the melting rate and increases the freezing rate [3]. The net result is that the ice melts more and more slowly after the initial addition of salt.

Why does salt melt ice? In pure water, at 0°C, ice melts just as fast as water freezes. You won't see any of the ice melt as long as the freezing rate and melting rates are exactly equal [1].

Adding salt (or any foreign substance) to the water upsets the delicate balance between freezing and melting. Fewer water molecules reach the surface of the ice in a given time, so water freezes more slowly. The melting rate isn't changed by the salt, so melting "wins" [2].

Does adding salt to ice and water cause a temperature drop? Yes. This is how old-fashioned ice cream makers lowered the temperature of the ice cream below water's ordinary freezing point. A mixture of rock salt, ice, and water packed in the bucket around the ice cream mix can bring the temperature down as low as -21°C.

Why does the temperature drop? Energy is required to snap the hydrogen bonds that hold the ice together. The melting ice draws that energy from the surrounding solution as heat.

If you'd like to extend your project, here are some suggestions:

* Watch how the temperature of the ice water falls after the initial addition of salt. What does a plot of temperature vs. time look like? (Stir constantly and completely!)
* Try adding different amounts of salt. What does a plot of temperature vs. salt concentration look like? Can you keep lowering the temperature this way indefinitely, or is there a point where adding salt produces no additional cooling? What happens when you add salt beyond that point?
* Suppose you forced the saline ice water and the pure ice water to have exactly the same temperature. Would ice in the saline solution melt faster than ice in the pure water, then?
* Does adding salt to water without any ice result in a temperature change?

Notes

1. Some of the ice actually is melting, but new ice forms as fast as old ice melts.
2. See these previous questions for more:

"Why does salt melt ice?" (includes a Flash simulation of freezing point depression)
"How can freezing point depression be explained in terms of free energies?"

3. The melting ice also adds more water to the solution. The higher water concentration gives the freezing rate an additional boost.

Author: Fred Senese [email protected]

 

[Korben]

From now on, buy a few gallons of spring water at the store to use as your "topper" water. Stick them in the freezer the day before, and then cut them out when you're ready to use them. You'll have massive ice cubes that are ideal for cooling a ton of wort very quickly - I'm talking down to 70 degrees in under 10 minutes. I don't even use my wort chiller these days.

Sorry if someone else mentioned this already; I didn't read all of the other posts.

This is what I just did on my first batch and it was so quick. Instantly down to 80 degrees. Is there anything wrong with this method?

I was wondering about this myself. I think my kettle is insulated or something it takes me forever to cool down my wort. I would definately do this if nothing bad would happen to my batch.

 

[KNOTSANE]

To form that slush you want in the prechiller bucket, make a slurry with bagged ice, water and ROCK salt. I find that regular salt doesn't work as well as rock salt. My pre chiller is 1/2 copper with a ball valve to regulate the water flow to my immersible chiller which is made with smaller diameter copper tubing. With this setup, I always have ice cold water flowing through the wort. I can go from boiling to pitching temp in around 10 to 12 minuets. Although not cost effective, but I had the copper pipe and all the fittings in my garage. This setup works well for South Louisiana when summer time tap water is around 90 degrees.

 

[user 34267]

I was wondering about this myself. I think my kettle is insulated or something it takes me forever to cool down my wort. I would definately do this if nothing bad would happen to my batch.

I've done this for 4 batches now. It works great.

Some things to make sure:

- Buy ozonated spring water, that way you're assured that everything inside is sterile

- Make sure you sterilize the outside of the bottle and whatever you're using to cut - I use a box cutter

- Take the bottles out of the freezer when you start brewing. That way all of the edges will have melted - the sides peel off easily when still frozen, but the bottom, the handle, and especially the cap won't let go very easily.

- Open them in a sink. The ice has expanded in the bottle, and the melted water is under a fair amount of pressure.

To open, I cut the entire bottom off, about 1-2" above the bottom. I then smash the handle to break any ice inside it, and dump the ice cube into a sterile bowl (that allows me to keep cutting the bottle if it doesn't slide right out).

It's actually really effective, you can easily overshoot your target temp if you just dump the ice in. Do it one gallon at a time. You could be cleaner about it if you wanted to boil water and freeze it, but I just haven't seen the need.

 

[dancness]

To chill a 2.5-3 gallon wort, I use a combination of icecubes from my freezer, the coldest water I can get from my tap, and 4 icepacks from my freezer (you know the kind you use for sprains/muscle strains)

The icepacks really help I've found, they take much longer to melt than the ice cubes. Just make sure they do not leak and are sealed well.

It takes about 15-20 minutes using this method to chill a 2.5-3 gallon wort.

 

[Rivenin]

Wort chillers become essential for all grain brewing.

not true... i do no chill and works wonderfully.
i haven't noticed a change in taste either

 

[Oscbert]

I get great efficiency from mash tun, so I add cold filtered water at end of boil to dilute and cool down the wort. Plus I get more beer!

 

[Flywheel]

We made homemade ice cream a few months ago and gave me an idea; In an ice bath, add mostly ice and a little water, then sprinkle salt over the top of the ice. It makes it colder and chills the wort faster. I'm not sure how much faster it is, but it turned the ice cubes into a solid block.

I do something similar, but I use isobutanol not salt. 1 cup added to the ice bath does wonders.

 

[MakeshiftBrew]

Maybe a dumb comment, but I thought the salt helps to melt the ice.

I think it's a different type of "salt".

 

[Flywheel]

1) Salt lowers the freezing point of water, thus making the ice on the streets/sidewalk a liquid and letting it evaporate.

2) Salt lowers the freezing point of water, thus allow the liquid surrounding the ice cubes to get below 32ºF without freezing, making the water colder, making it cool things faster.

3) I find adding isopropyl alcohol to my ice baths is way more effective and less messy than salt

 

[phoenixs4r]

Massive thread resurrection

 

[gobiasbluth]

I'm brand new and starting my first brew tomorrow. Wondering, if I'm going old school, simple ice bath to cool the wort, is it ideal to have a top on the kettle or should I leave the wort open to air?

Thanks for any advice you might have...

 

[Jdaught]

If it were me I would put a lid on it as it cools to keep from introducing any of the bad guys that could ruin your batch.

 

[punkerdru]

Yeah, the cooling (or loss of heat really) comes from the sides, not the top. You can however stir the wort occasionally with a sanitized spoon to make it go faster. Stir the ice bath as well with something different.

 

[punkerdru]

Yeah, the cooling (or loss of heat really) comes from the sides, not the top. You can however stir the wort occasionally with a sanitized spoon to make it go faster. Stir the ice bath as well with something different.

Edit: zombie thread!

 

[WaltG]

We made homemade ice cream a few months ago and gave me an idea; In an ice bath, add mostly ice and a little water, then sprinkle salt over the top of the ice. It makes it colder and chills the wort faster. I'm not sure how much faster it is, but it turned the ice cubes into a solid block.

Do not do this in the sink if using an aluminum kettle. Steel sink + aluminum kettle + salt = battery. Long story short it will shock you. Lol

 

[wolfej50]

I use a wort chiller and tap water. As you all know, initially, the chiller cools the boiled wort rapidly, but as the temperature approaches that of the tap water, cooling slows down considerably. My boil pot is to big to immerse in ice water, so I was considering an alternative. Fill some plastic bottles with water, immerse those with sanitizing solution, then freeze them. When the wort chiller starts to slow down, put the sanitized frozen bottles in the wort for the final cooling, being careful not to touch the bottles with anything that wasn't also sanitized, i.e., using sanitized tongs to carries the bottles. The trade off seems to be the risk of introducing an infection from the bottles vs. a longer exposure of the wort to air-borne infections. Has anyone tried this?

 

[shoengine]

I believe that scenario is addressed earlier in this thread. Both using bottled water as a heat sink, and also using them as giant top-off ice cubes.

A lot of Zombie threads recently. They need an icon or something so that at least people know they are undead.

 

[60acresbrewclub]

I don't think this was mentioned, recently lost my immersion wort chiller during my move, I plan on running 100' of silicone through an ice cold picnic cooler (jockeybox) and transfer my wart through the tubing ending with an aerator tip I figure about 90' will be in the cooler this should save time, leave extra space to whirlpool during the transfer, give the yeasties their O2, and minimize water consumption.

...possible downfall: line resistance pressure could be offset by gravity haven't ran the numbers yet

 

[Lefou]

Using an ice-cold Coleman cooler as a re-engineered bass-awkward thermal sink has been an idea of mine for a while. Instead of using vertical cylindrical coils the 1/2" or 3/8" copper could be utilized in angled, multiple flat sandwiched layers of "S" bends that would be more space efficient. Gravity feed would be reliable. It might be expensive given the price of copper but the heat transfer in 20-50ft of copper would be much faster than a same size immersion coil put in the kettle.
Using ice-cold calcium chloride salt water would introduce the observed "supercooling effect" and significantly reduce cooling times. The only real issue would be choosing proper connections to the kettle valve and sealing the copper lines efficiently. No one wants wort contaminated with salt water. Furthermore, if gravity-fed wort flowed well, it would be a breeze flushing the copper line with sanitizer in the same manner.
The idea sort of intrigued me because the glycol chillers are so expensive and not everyone can afford one ... but making a "better" thermal sink might be a more affordable idea people would love to see as a DIY home brew project.

 

[Lefou]

The reason I brought this up is because I don't use an immersion chiller, but all the needed parts for such a project can be easily found. Like everything else in this hobby you have to consider how much money, time, and effort gets applied ... and some of us appreciate cheap but efficiently effective home engineered gadgets.
I might get around to it eventually.