Chill haze in lighter colored beers only?

[Vinman58]

All my darker beers clear nicely, ph? Water? Just seems odd. anyone else experience this?

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Perhaps the darker malt(s) mask? If wanting to remove either cold crash and/or fine with plain gelatin.

 

[Vinman58]

I have done both and it works great but my arrogant bastard clone for example is Crystal clear with only 5 days cold crash no gelatin, but centennial blond never cleared with weeks at 35?

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Some yeast fall clear. For example, Wyeast 1968.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Possible to see the recipes to compare them?

 

[Vale71]

The chill haze is there, you just can't see it as easily in a very dark beer.

 

[Vale71]

Some yeast fall clear. For example, Wyeast 1968.

If it's chill haze then yeast has got nothing to do with it.

 

[Toxxyc]

Is your boiling done the same?

 

[Vinman58]

Yes boil the same, my Irish red was beautiful. Arrogant Bastard beautiful, centennial blond never cleared same process? Maybe the dark malt is helping my mash ph. Don't mess with water other than Camden tablets for chlorine, no way to measure ph. I'm sure my water is hard that's all I know about it.

 

[Miraculix]

Unmalted adjuncts tends to leave more chill haze because their proteins are not as broken down as in malted grains. Maybe it's not about the colour but about the adjuncts? Looking at cream of three crops, it has some unmalted adjuncts.

You can do a protein rest at the appropriate temperature when mashing, but it's easy to overdo it. Then you would loose body and head.

 

[Vinman58]

Unmalted adjuncts tends to leave more chill haze because their proteins are not as broken down as in malted grains. Maybe it's not about the colour but about the adjuncts? Looking at cream of three crops, it has some unmalted adjuncts.

You can do a protein rest at the appropriate temperature when mashing, but it's easy to overdo it. Then you would loose body and head.

Well my centennial blond was 7# two row .5# Crystal 10 and .5 #Vienna so light grain bill, no adjuncts. So I don't know?

 

[Miraculix]

Well my centennial blond was 7# two row .5# Crystal 10 and .5 #Vienna so light grain bill, no adjuncts. So I don't know?

Woops, somehow I confused centennial blonde with cream of three crops

My bad!

 

[waldoar15]

Might be your water, malt or boil. Have you tried kettle fining? Good hot and cold break?

 

[Vinman58]

Might be your water, malt or boil. Have you tried kettle fining? Good hot and cold break?

Yes. Actually started using a pre chiller in ice bath and using Irish moss after the hazy blond . Hmm maybe that's all I needed. Need to brew another light colored beer to see. Didn't know how important that is. Good call. Well see next batch. Thanks!

 

[waldoar15]

Yes. Actually started using a pre chiller in ice bath and using Irish moss after the hazy blond . Hmm maybe that's all I needed. Need to brew another light colored beer to see. Didn't know how important that is. Good call. Well see next batch. Thanks!

There's a podcast here on beer clarity and haze. Kind of dry watching if you're not a beer nerd, but it does give a greater understanding of the issue.
https://beersmith.com/blog/2017/02/...th-dr-charlie-bamforth-beersmith-podcast-142/

 

[Vinman58]

There's a podcast here on beer clarity and haze. Kind of dry watching if you're not a beer nerd, but it does give a greater understanding of the issue.
https://beersmith.com/blog/2017/02/...th-dr-charlie-bamforth-beersmith-podcast-142/

Thanks, ill check it out.

 

[beersk]

What are you doing for water treatment? Is your pH in line? That'll affect the clarity. Perhaps the darker beers are clearing because your pH is good for those beers and maybe your lighter beers are coming in with a high mash pH. Those dark malts are going to lower your pH.

 

[Vinman58]

What are you doing for water treatment? Is your pH in line? That'll affect the clarity. Perhaps the darker beers are clearing because your pH is good for those beers and maybe your lighter beers are coming in with a high mash pH. Those dark malts are going to lower your pH.

Yep, I use tap water dosed with Camden tablets for chlorine / cloromine. Don't know my water chemistry, it's relatively hard is all I know. Thinking maybe dilute by half with R.O. water? Ounce or 2 acid malt.

 

[beersk]

Yes, I think that'd help tremendously. I bet that's the source or your chill haze problems right there. If you could do all RO water, that'd be ideal.

 

[Miraculix]

Yep, I use tap water dosed with Camden tablets for chlorine / cloromine. Don't know my water chemistry, it's relatively hard is all I know. Thinking maybe dilute by half with R.O. water? Ounce or 2 acid malt.

For hard water and pale beers, a rule of thumb way would be to add 2% of the grain bill weight as acid malt.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Or, without the acid malt tang, fine by crash cooling and use plain gelatin.

 

[Vinman58]

Or, without the acid malt tang, fine by crash cooling and use plain gelatin.

Yea, but I don't think you'll taste 1 or 2oz. Acid malt. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Yea, but I don't think you'll taste 1 or 2oz. Acid malt. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

What's the overall percent of acid malt in the batch? I ask as I used 5.6% acid malt in a brew last Spring. Took a while for the brew to "mellow" to my liking.

 

[Vinman58]

What's the overall percent of acid malt in the batch? I ask as I used 5.6% acid malt in a brew last Spring. Took a while to the brew to "mellow" to my liking.

Well, probably over 10lb grain bill. So maybe 1 1/2 to 2 percent acid malt.

 

[Miraculix]

Well, probably over 10lb grain bill. So maybe 1 1/2 to 2 percent acid malt.

It depends on the water. If the water is hard, the acid gets neutralised by the alkalinity of the water anyway. I never tasted 2% within my beers and I had similar water.

 

[beersk]

You won't taste up to 4% or so of acid malt in a light grain bill. Sometimes that adds a nice flavor to beers like kolsch or helles though. I never use more than like 4-6oz in a 5 gallon batch. Most often that's going to be enough to get your pH to where you want it. I started using phosphoric acid, though, because it's a more neutral flavor. Lactic acid has its place though.

 

[Vinman58]

You won't taste up to 4% or so of acid malt in a light grain bill. Sometimes that adds a nice flavor to beers like kolsch or helles though. I never use more than like 4-6oz in a 5 gallon batch. Most often that's going to be enough to get your pH to where you want it. I started using phosphoric acid, though, because it's a more neutral flavor. Lactic acid has its place though.

Yea, I should get a ph meter, and a water report and a partridge in a pear tree...

 

[beersk]

Yea, I should get a ph meter, and a water report and a partridge in a pear tree...

Meh, you don't need a pH meter to make good beer. It was always my goal to avoid a pH meter. That just takes it beyond the point of fun for me. Brewing is as much an art as it is a science. The balance of those two is up to you to decide. Before you get a pH meter, I'd suggest starting with RO water and using Bru'n water to calculate your mash pH. It's been found to be quite accurate. I use it and love it.

 

[seatazzz]

Might try using whirlfloc instead of irish moss, and add 15 minutes to end of boil. I used to drop it at 30 minutes, but since I've moved it to 15 I've noticed much stronger cold break; then just need to watch while running into the fermenter to make sure I stop the pump before that cold break material starts running in. Wort goes in to the fermenter much clearer, and less loss from trub. Of course need to make sure enough volume in the BK to leave that 1/2 to 3/4 gallon of cold break.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Is it *chill haze* as in only present when cold and clears when it warms?

Chill haze is often protein-derived, and could have grain bill as a factor.

But if it's directly tied to how dark or light the beer is (and doesn't impact dark beers) my, then as others have said it's probably pH related. You're probably getting a polyphenol haze (think tannins) from pH rising too high during sparging. Either intial pH is too high, your sparge water is too alkaline, or you're oversparging, or some combo of the three.