Chemical pasteurization question

[412CiderGuy]

I normally buy UV pasteurized but the machine was broke so I had to buy 35 gallons of raw juice. I read that a half teaspoon of potassium Sulfite should kill buggers but I’m used to only using that for stabilizing for bottling. Does anyone have any rule of thumb techniques for chemical pasteurization?

Note: heat is not an option, I don’t have the equipment for that.

 

[Blacksmith1]

Adding one campden tab, or equivalent, per gallon is supposed to inhibit critter colonies. (I could be wrong on the amount to use) As to why/how exactly I'm not sure. You'll need one of the science guys to come in and give that part of the lecture.

 

[Maylar]

I normally buy UV pasteurized but the machine was broke so I had to buy 35 gallons of raw juice. I read that a half teaspoon of potassium Sulfite should kill buggers but I’m used to only using that for stabilizing for bottling. Does anyone have any rule of thumb techniques for chemical pasteurization?

Note: heat is not an option, I don’t have the equipment for that.

Standard dose of potassium metabisulfite would be 1/4 teaspoon for 5-6 gallons. That's what I use.

 

[Blacksmith1]

K-meta is not the same as campden, correct? Don't want to propagate misinformation again if they are 2 different substances.

 

[KaiB]

K-meta is not the same as campden, correct? Don't want to propagate misinformation again if they are 2 different substances.

Beyond dosing (powder vs. tablet), the only difference btw. the two is the cation: Sodium v. Potassium.

 

[Blacksmith1]

My campden is potassium based. I thought it was K sulfite, which it seems to me would be different than metabisulfite. I don't have the original package from my campden as it was a flimsy bag.
I guess I should know this but What little chem I took in high school was right after lunch, which I spent with the hippies ( what they call stoners these days) so there's alot I did not retain.

[Edit] Just looked it up. Yep same substance. And for those wondering what all it does check out the wikipedia page HERE [/EDIT]

 

[412CiderGuy]

Thanks guys! I put in a half instead of a 4th not hopefully that’s fine

 

[KaiB]

My campden is potassium based. I thought it was K sulfite, which it seems to me would be different than metabisulfite. I don't have the original package from my campden as it was a flimsy bag.
I guess I should know this but What little chem I took in high school was right after lunch, which I spent with the hippies ( what they call stoners these days) so there's alot I did not retain.

[Edit] Just looked it up. Yep same substance. And for those wondering what all it does check out the wikipedia page HERE [/EDIT]

Meta (ortho, para) merely indicates the positioning of the ions...thus, the structure of the molecule.

 

[bernardsmith]

But I wonder if the issue is slightly different. I think it may be a federal law that apple juice sold commercially has to be pasteurized (by heat or UV) because of the possibility that some of the apples pressed were picked up from the ground and if on the ground have been crapped on by animals and so there is a possibility of e-coli and listeria. I am not a microbiologist and have no knowledge whether K-meta itself is powerful enough to destroy those pathogens. That said, if there is no possibility of either listeria or e-coli infections and your only concern is that your lab-cultured colony will not kick out any indigenous yeast and overpower any volunteer bacteria then using the equivalent K-meta that is found in 1 Campden tablet /gallon is enough to give the yeast you inoculate your apple juice the time they need to create the environment they prefer and the environment any competitors dis-prefer.

 

[bmd2k1]

But I wonder if the issue is slightly different. I think it may be a federal law that apple juice sold commercially has to be pasteurized (by heat or UV) because of the possibility that some of the apples pressed were picked up from the ground and if on the ground have been crapped on by animals and so there is a possibility of e-coli and listeria. I am not a microbiologist and have no knowledge whether K-meta itself is powerful enough to destroy those pathogens. That said, if there is no possibility of either listeria or e-coli infections and your only concern is that your lab-cultured colony will not kick out any indigenous yeast and overpower any volunteer bacteria then using the equivalent K-meta that is found in 1 Campden tablet /gallon is enough to give the yeast you inoculate your apple juice the time they need to create the environment they prefer and the environment any competitors dis-prefer.

Here in Michigan (atleast) some cider mills sell unpasteurized & clearly try to use that for marketing purposes. Most mills around me use UV pasteurization these days.

 

[bernardsmith]

Here in Michigan (atleast) some cider mills sell unpasteurized & clearly try to use that for marketing purposes. Most mills around me use UV pasteurization these days.

So that suggests that this is state law and not federal. I don't believe that it is lawful to sell unpasteurized apple juice in NYS.

 

[412CiderGuy]

But I wonder if the issue is slightly different. I think it may be a federal law that apple juice sold commercially has to be pasteurized (by heat or UV) because of the possibility that some of the apples pressed were picked up from the ground and if on the ground have been crapped on by animals and so there is a possibility of e-coli and listeria. I am not a microbiologist and have no knowledge whether K-meta itself is powerful enough to destroy those pathogens. That said, if there is no possibility of either listeria or e-coli infections and your only concern is that your lab-cultured colony will not kick out any indigenous yeast and overpower any volunteer bacteria then using the equivalent K-meta that is found in 1 Campden tablet /gallon is enough to give the yeast you inoculate your apple juice the time they need to create the environment they prefer and the environment any competitors dis-prefer.

Honestly this was my big concern... this guy buys the left over apples from dozens of places so guessing that means the lowest quality. I’m wondering if the meta sulphites weren’t enough to kill the really bad stuff. I’m wondering if I dump in more sugar and get the alcohol content up if that would help?

 

[bernardsmith]

I think you need a microbiologist to chime in here. I honestly have no idea how effective K-meta is against pathological microbes such as e-coli or listeria and those bugs can be deadly.

 

[ThreeDogsNE]

Campden tablets are either sodium metabisulfite or potassium metabisulfite. Unfortunately, there is not any easy automatic answer for how much SMS or KMS to add. That depends on the pH. With adequate free sulfites prior to fermentation, you should not have to worry about spoilage bacteria, much less pathogenic bacteria. See page 16-17 in the attached pdf.

 

[ThreeDogsNE]

As far as the E. Coli goes, alcoholic fermentation will kill them. "Results of this study indicate that E.coli 0157:H7 is capable of survival in fresh apple cider at 20°C, while alcoholic fermentation of fresh cider is an effective means of destroying this pathogen." Here is the reference: https://jfoodprotection.org/doi/pdf/10.4315/0362-028X-59.12.1256

 

[ThreeDogsNE]

I cannot find anything that suggests that Listeria will survive alcoholic fermentation. Anyone?