Check my thinking

[yso191]

Hi,

New to brewing. I have done a couple of extract brews with my brother, thats about it. But now I'm on a tear to get going on an all-grain brewing system.

I can't afford to just order a Sabco system, so I am intending to buy a brew sculpture, and put two keggles on it for the HLT and Mash Tun. I will put weldless fittings on them for a sight-glass, thermometer, and valve.

Then I want to buy a commercial brew kettle for the boil kettle because I'm thinking that it is the critical kettle vis. sanitation. I'm thinking that the HLT will be no big deal because all that is in there is hot water - and the stuff in the Mash Tun will either get thrown out or boiled in the next step.

I know that doesn't mean I can overlook sanitation in them, but am I right in thinking that the Boil kettle is the critical vessel where I need to eliminate all possible places for bacteria, etc. to hide, and that that is best done in a commercial kettle with sanitary welds?

Steve

 

[tally350z]

I am using a keg conversion as my bk, and it works great. (Weldless). But you can get sanitized welds.
I would suggest getting a cooler and convert to start learning all grain initially. That's what I did and it has helped out alot in the long run.
Also really everything needs to be cleaned after every brew. As far as sanitizing, you really only need to sanitize everything that comes into contact post boil. That is the critical time when bacteria can surface and an infection can occur.

 

[Ryush806]

The only place you MIGHT need to worry about sanitation for your kettle is on the outlet side of your valve. Everything up to and including the ball part of the ball valve will be at 212 F or above while the wort is boiling and therefore sanitary. I usually take a spray bottle full of starsan and spray inside the outlet of the valve just to make sure. What you mainly need to be worried about is what the wort touches after leaving the kettle.

 

[bja]

am I right in thinking that the Boil kettle is the critical vessel where I need to eliminate all possible places for bacteria, etc. to hide, and that that is best done in a commercial kettle with sanitary welds?

Steve

No, you're not right. Being at boiling temps for an hour or more will sanitize the kettle and everything in it.

 

[DPBISME]

We all learned about the little "beasties" as kid as our mothers tried to terrify us with Germs... but cooking kills everything,,, StarSan kills everything…

Me? I just use Oxyclean at low water temperatures to soak and clean with a blue scratchpad on my plastic and a green scratchpad on my SS.

I rinse with hot water.

On Brewing day (sometimes the same day but it is an easier day if you clean one day and brew and sanitize another) I rinse again with a HOT solution of Starsan (just in case any Oxyclean was left over.

When I finish brewing I rinse the BK and MT with water.

Run the StarSan Solution through my BK with a pump,,, before the pump I did this manually.

Never do heavy cleaning on the HLT or the MT as they don’t need it…

MORE PROCESS:

I keg so I also make a point of cleaning all my empty kegs or dirty equipment using the water used to cool down the wort… I lots of water for this cooling and I hate to waste it…

 

[bdjohns1]

We all learned about the little "beasties" as kid as our mothers tried to terrify us with Germs... but cooking kills everything,,, StarSan kills everything…

Not entirely true. Some of those beasties are more clever than you give them credit for. I'm not going to bead the dead horse because I've done so on several other threads, but you can't just naively assume that heat and chemicals will guarantee safe product. God forbid you be so unlucky as to have a little B. cereus contamination. One of its byproducts is a toxin that you could boil for hours and still remain effective.

I'm not saying that using a weld less or threaded non sanitary fitting is flirting with disaster, but sanitary fittings are easier to clean because they don't provide potential harborage points (threads, crevices around o-rings). If you've got the budget, then go sanitary where you can.

 

[theredben]

BdJohns1 - luckily B. cereus cannot grow in beer. Concerns with sanitation around brewing only affect the taste and drinkability of the final product, not the safety of the resulting beer.

 

[bdjohns1]

BdJohns1 - luckily B. cereus cannot grow in beer. Concerns with sanitation around brewing only affect the taste and drinkability of the final product, not the safety of the resulting beer.

That's the nasty thing about it. It doesn't have to grow in beer. Say you leave a little stuff behind in your BK after your last batch and it doesn't dry fast enough. Maybe a little trub gets caught between the O-ring and the wall. It grows for a while and then forms spores and goes to sleep. When you make your next batch, boiling will not kill the spores. Eliminating the spores takes more like 250F or higher. Basically, autoclave conditions. Then, you cool the next batch. Once you're below 120F or so, it can grow again. Say you don't pitch yeast right away, or you've got a slow batch. Bacteria keep growing. They'll stop when the yeast takes off, but the damage is done. The toxin produced by the bacteria remains even after the fermentation is over.

 

[theredben]

bdJohns1- by that logic, we would all have significant B. cereus populations growing in our fermenters, bottles, and tubing. Seeing as homebrewers don't have a problem with that it points to the conclusion that your theory is just that, a theory. While that scenario may be possible, in the real world it just doesn't work like that. Luckily for us.

 

[Ryush806]

bdJohns1- by that logic, we would all have significant B. cereus populations growing in our fermenters, bottles, and tubing. Seeing as homebrewers don't have a problem with that it points to the conclusion that your theory is just that, a theory. While that scenario may be possible, in the real world it just doesn't work like that. Luckily for us.

I'm sure it's possible. Probably about as possible as getting struck by lightning or bit by a shark. The chance isn't high enough to warrant staying under a rock all the time.

 

[bja]

I'm not going to bead the dead horse because I've done so on several other threads,

Oh no, the sky is falling, again...