Cheat Fermentor

[Duhast500]

I am always trying to cut the cost of homebrewing since I have a limited budget. One of the things I have been thinking of using to cut the cost of brewing is a five gallon water jug from the work cooler. Does anyone know if this has been used for homebrewing before? Wondering if anyone also knew the pro and cons of giving this a try?

 

[Zamial]

This is a BAD idea because it is 95% likely to be the wrong plastic for the job.

This has been discussed at great lengths also...

For the "super budget" fermenter. I go around to my grocery stores and polity ask a deli person or bakery person, when they are not busy, if they have any "food grade plastic buckets with lids that they either do not want or would be willing to give away."

I have 5 1 gallon buckets that I use as blow off buckets and 5 4gallon #2 HDPE buckets with lids. While the size may not seem great I can easily split a 6 gallon batch into 2 of the buckets...I have 0 dollars invested in these.

GL

 

[haplo]

I’ve often wondered this as well because I see dozens of full and empty water jugs near our water cooler.

Can you tell which plastic is ok for brewing by checking the recycle number on the bottom of plastic containers? Or are there other factors as well?

 

[keithbeats]

I use a "work cooler" all of the time. Are we talking, like an Alhambra bottle?

 

[Zamial]

Can you tell which plastic is ok for brewing by checking the recycle number on the bottom of plastic containers?

Yes, this is how. NORMALLY #1 or 2 HDPE is ideal. The #7 is VERY common and there is the possibility that the EOTH in the beer will extract carcinogens into your beer.(water does not extract these chemicals). Some people still use these anyway and can produce good beers.

There is also the "theft" issue as well. Just like a sanke keg, paying for a deposit and then keeping the item is stealing. I advise against this.

 

[Revvy]

There's a million threads on this, just look up plastic water jugs, or culligan or absopure water bottles. The definitive "no" answer that so many folks throw out, shoulod be replaced by "maybe."

In the last couple years, since the BPE recall, there has been some changes to the type of plastics used in water jugs, now even the better bottle company is making bottles for many of the water companies. And other jug manufacturers are pretty much making clones of better bottles. So even the whole "oxygen permeability" argument that folks usually answer is no longet 100% valid.

It all is going to depend on the number on the bottom. if you find <1> and <2> out there than you are all set. In some cities, that's ALL you can find on the bottom of the water bottles these day, people have had sightings at some lowes and home depots. But that appears to depend on the municipality and their laws in regards to BPE.

 

[SumnerH]

The O2 permeability thing probably doesn't really matter for short-term fermentation, anyway.

But buckets are cheap (as noted above, they're often free if you ask around a little), easier to fill, easier to clean, and usually have enough headspace that they're unlikely to blow off. 90% of my beers never see a Better Bottle (or carboy, or Culligan, or whatever).

 

[Beer_Guy]

There's a million threads on this, …

… It all is going to depend on the number on the bottom. if you find <1> and <2> out there than you are all set. …

Thanks for the reminder Revvy,

I have read this many many times and still yesterday I used a 3 gallon water bottle I have had for years for half of a 1554 Clone. (I split the rest into 4 small test batches.)

I looked at it while ago and it has a #7. With no LHBS and since waiting was not an option, I made a quick fermenter with a #2 - 5 gallon bucket. The blow off tube was and is bubbling nicely so it should fill the head space with Co2 pretty quick.

Thanks again for not just saying “Look it up or do a search.” I might not have taken the time to reread something I know is “Common Knowledge”, but had just let slip by me.

Best tip I could give anyone is if you get a large bottle of water and see it does not have a #1 OR #2, mark it for “WATER ONLY”. You might forget to look later.

 

[Duhast500]

I will make sure I search a topic out before doing another post. Thanks for the info.

 

[Revvy]

Best tip I could give anyone is if you get a large bottle of water and see it does not have a #1 OR #2, mark it for “WATER ONLY”. You might forget to look later.

But, what happened in the case of the Better Bottles is that at least one pallet of the one's that they ship to water companies got mixed up in their beer/wine line. They are exactly the same bottles, except that whatever municipality or water company they were making for madated that the BBs had the "for water only" stamp on the bottom. One of our members had just bought one from the lhbs and got one of the "water only" ones. He contacted the company and although they offered to replace it with a "real" better bottle, told him that the they are exactly the same product. IIRC he opted to keep the "water bottle."

That's one of the reasons it's such a gray area these days as to whether or not you can get away with using a "water bottle."

 

[tvtoms]

The Coopers micro brew kit is recycle code #2 if it helps.

 

[JNye]

i use a # 7. after extensive research i found that its bacsically proven nothing will leech into the water an any level that should concern anyone. I found no studies on the effect alcohol might have on leeching but frankly I ain't worried. Oxygen permeability should be considered, so i only use it for short primaries. just me. have fun.

 

[bovineblitz]

I found one the other day that's a #1. I guess in some stores they have new poland spring 'eco bottles' that are made of #1 plastic... I'm using it for a blackberry wheat currently.

 

[Revvy]

i use a # 7. after extensive research i found that its bacsically proven nothing will leech into the water an any level that should concern anyone. I found no studies on the effect alcohol might have on leeching but frankly I ain't worried. Oxygen permeability should be considered, so i only use it for short primaries. just me. have fun.

*shhhhh* Dpn't tell anyone, but I have a couple of three gallon number 7 waterbottles that I use for 2.5 gallon batches. And except for these manboobs, which may or may not have anything to do with it, I've never had any issues with using them for short ferments either.

 

[rico567]

I use Better Bottles for secondary....and I don't pretend to be an authority on which type of plastic is better. There seems to be a pretty clear consensus on HBT that #1 or #2 HDPE is OK.
For fermenters, I can't see using anything but the good old white plastic bucket. They're cheap and ubiquitous. They're widely available free- I picked up two from the local IGA bakery, where they get bulk icing and such products packed in 3 gal. buckets. Even where 5 gallon can be found, though, these are too small to primary ferment a full 5 gallon batch of beer. I started with the conventional 6.5 gal. "Ale Pail," but after two years switched to the U.S. Plastics 7 gal. bucket. It doesn't sound like much more internal volume, but I haven't had a single instance of foam in the airlock with these. Also, the U.S. Plastics lids come with real live neoprene "O" rings in the lid, which give a positive seal. I got three of these buckets, with lids, shipping included, for a tad over $30. Given what I've got invested in this pastime, that's cheap.

 

[BeerJorge]

If there are any bakeries nearby where you live, you can try getting some food grade plastic buckets from them...

Some of them don't seal really well, but hey, they are free and will do the job...

 

[arturo7]

For the record, the designation "7" is a catch-all category designated as "other plastic." The material in a #7 bottle from company A is not necessarily the same as from company B.

 

[OHIOSTEVE]

Picked up a 5 gallon jug at walmart the other day to see what the designation was on the bottom...This was from their water refill station and they are #2's..... so if anyone needs a cheap fermentor, there ya go. I may grab a couple as I need a few 5 gallons for secondaries. I have 8-7 gallon carboys but only 4 or 5-5 gallon ones..... Yeah I LOVE brewing and making wine.

 

[samie85]

People have mentioned, that oxygen permeability is an issue with these, but others have mentioned that they are using these container's as secondaries (which is what I would want one for). How does everybody feel about that? What about longer term storage, say for example a mead or sour?

 

[JNye]

People have mentioned, that oxygen permeability is an issue with these, but others have mentioned that they are using these container's as secondaries (which is what I would want one for). How does everybody feel about that? What about longer term storage, say for example a mead or sour?

i would defer to the oxygen boogie man on this one and NOT ever use it for long term storage for meads and sours, despite the fact that i would prolly put money down that taking the bung off just once to check gravity would let in way more oxygen then the year of aging would. i'd stick to the better safe then sorry on that one.

 

[rico567]

i would defer to the oxygen boogie man on this one and NOT ever use it for long term storage for meads and sours, despite the fact that i would prolly put money down that taking the bung off just once to check gravity would let in way more oxygen then the year of aging would. i'd stick to the better safe then sorry on that one.

Long-term storage is the ONLY place where I will defer to the oxygen permeability argument, which for other intervals in the brewing process is mythological. For long-term bulk aging, it's glass.

 

[SumnerH]

Long-term storage is the ONLY place where I will defer to the oxygen permeability argument, which for other intervals in the brewing process is mythological. For long-term bulk aging, it's glass.

OldSock and lots of other multi-year sour brewers with a lot of experience use Better Bottles for long-term fermentation. Belgian breweries (and many others) use barrels that let in a ton of oxygen compared to glass. Wine vinyards and others use barrels (with the accompanying oxygenation rate) too. Indeed, I've heard a lot of respectable vintners say that without oxygen exchange, you may as well not age--that's the big thing that makes older wines have more complex and interesting tastes.

For long-term fermentation of sours, glass would be very low on my list of containers. It might work, but traditionally (and in most modern brewing/vintnering setups) there's a fair amount of oxygen permeability in bulk aging setups. Glass isn't going to allow for that. It might work okay, but I _know_ that the traditional setups (with higher oxygen exchange) make for good long-term brews and I suspect that slow oxidation is a part of the reason for that.

I'm willing to be convinced otherwise, though, and I'd love to see a controlled experiment or several.

 

[JNye]

For long-term fermentation of sours, glass would be very low on my list of containers. It might work, but traditionally (and in most modern brewing/vintnering setups) there's a fair amount of oxygen permeability in bulk aging setups. Glass isn't going to allow for that. It might work okay, but I _know_ that the traditional setups (with higher oxygen exchange) make for good long-term brews and I suspect that slow oxidation is a part of the reason for that.

I'm willing to be convinced otherwise, though, and I'd love to see a controlled experiment or several.

this is pretty interesting. i did a little reading and its seems barrells actualy let in very little oxygen when properly handled/topped up. seems the small amount over a longer period is desirable, but not large amounts at once, like when racking. maybe they are perfect for meads and sours.
I'm still keeping my porter in glass