Cheap & Easy 10 Gallon Rubbermaid MLT Conversion
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dwpumo
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Double batch sparge? do you just heat 2 things of water and shut it down, add more too the HLT, then start it back up?
Nope... there's no HLT involved when doing a batch sparge.
I just heat two pots of sparge water during the mash, drain out the first runnings, dump one of the pots in, let sit for 15 minutes, drain, lather, rinse, repeat.
starrfish
Well-Known Member
+1 and a if you have a 7-10 gallon pot 1 big batch sparge. easy peasy! 10 gallon is a batch sparge.... unlike steeping specialty grains squeeze that bag.
BendBrewer
Well-Known Member
I use 9-10 gallons of sparge water. I put this amount in my HLT and fire it as soon as I begin the mash and bring it up to 180 ish. Drain my first runnings and sparge with half of the water in my HLT which is now OFF flame. I stir well and let the grain bed settle for 8-10 minutes and then recirculate and drain. Now the water in my HLT is cooled to 170 ish and I do my second sparge as my wort comes up to temp in the Kettle.
Sounds like a lot but for most of the time I am sitting in a chair drinking a beer and watching my pump run.
BendBrewer
Well-Known Member
Technically, you are using 2 HLTs.
Well then technically my faucet is a cold liquor tun
Nah, I wouldn't call it a HLT if I'm using them to heat up the water and then just dump directly into the MLT (no draining or anything.) Then I use them for the boil as well.
I found the washers and bought 6 of them, 3 on each side of the bulkhead to get everything tight. Also used two o-rings to fill the opening where the faucet was and the second was to stick out enough for the washer to contact. Only thing I noticed is the ball valve is a hair too close to the cooler. The handle contacts, but it shuts off the flow, so no biggie. I guess I'm ready to give all grain a shot after I brew these two extract recipes I have.
I do something similar although no pump. I heat up about 15 gallons of strike water in HLT, use how much i need for mashing, add more water to HLT and heat it back up to sparge temp while the mash does its thing. I do 10 gallon batches. Do as you do for sparge.
razorbrewer
Member
If someone could ship me a stainless steel fender washer, I would greatly appreciate it. I've been to Lowe's, Home Depot, Fastenal, Ace Hardware, and all the local fastener dealers (I work in the construction industry so I'm aware of and have honestly exhausted all local options) and NOT A SINGLE ONE of them carry 5/8" ss fender washers. 1/2" is the largest they have. If anyone can help out, I would greatly appreciate it and reciprocate the favor any way I can.
razorbrewer said:
I can hook you up. How many do you need? I'll have to run to the hardware store to get them. I used 6, 3 on each side of the bulkhead to get everything snug so opening and closing the ball valve didn't twist the whole thing all over. I also used two o-rings to fill the "gap" from the faucet.
razorbrewer
Member
jtkratzer said:
PM sent.
SirMoik
Member
I went to Home Depot yesterday and found 5/8" stainless steel washers. It came in a kit called "Create-A-Bolt" which contains the stainless steel washers along with nuts and lock washers (4 each). They are packaged in a clear plastic box with an orange label. I tossed the receipt but the website's price is $3.92, seems pretty good. Here is a link to the product on the Home Depot website: http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202249572/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053
razorbrewer
Member
Out of curiosity, what is the OD of the 5/8" Fender Washers you are using? How about the thickness? I just realized I had some things I needed to order from McMaster-Carr and they've got a huge selection of washers and the only dimension I'm certain on is the ID of the washer. Any help would be appreciated.
I can measure for you when I get home from work. The washers I used fit perfectly in that depression where the cooler faucet sat.
I put two o-rings in, one to fill the opening around the brass nipple, and the second to stick out a bit for the washers to compress and make a seal. I left the rubber seal that came with the cooler on the inside.
SirMoik
Member
Like jtkratzer said, my washers also fit perfectly into the depression. The washers have an OD of 1.5" and are about 1/16" thick. I don't think the thickness matters too much other than getting the valve clear of the cooler (so thicker the better). I used three of the stainless 1.5" OD washers and three 2" OD zinc coated washers (cheaper and a bit thicker) on the outside of the cooler.
I picked up a 16mm SS washer from Lowes that worked fine. They didn't have any 5/8 SS washers so I checked out the metric section and realized the 16mm would work.
ranchonodinero
Well-Known Member
Which false bottom are you using?
dropitlikesitshot
Active Member
Here is my experience: 10 Gal cooler at HD is not displayed must ask where they're kept. Price $40+tax. All the other parts were easy to find, but three parts differed from the fly guy wiki post. The 1/4 hose clamps turned out to be Nickel plated steel vice stainless steel (which is better). I bought the wrong type of supply hose (explain later), and the 5/8 SS Fender washers was in the bolt pack as previously mentioned (but may not be needed). Finally the O-ring was in a pack not sold individually.
CAUTION!! Hardware stores sell Zinc plated steel items and will be recommended by the store help if you do not tell them your MT will be in contact with liquid. I bought a zincs supply house by accident. Also the 5/8 fender washers that took my on a wild goose chase may turn out to be a lesson learned. I have them inside, but really might be able to go without since I have handle clearance on the outside (original post used three on the outside) and water tight seal inside (where I am using them). I am using them inside now, but may see if it works fine without them later. The total price for the hardware was $40. So, buying a setup from your LHBS might be a better deal considering time and gas.
CAUTION!! Hardware stores sell Zinc plated steel items and will be recommended by the store help if you do not tell them your MT will be in contact with liquid. I bought a zincs supply house by accident. Also the 5/8 fender washers that took my on a wild goose chase may turn out to be a lesson learned. I have them inside, but really might be able to go without since I have handle clearance on the outside (original post used three on the outside) and water tight seal inside (where I am using them). I am using them inside now, but may see if it works fine without them later. The total price for the hardware was $40. So, buying a setup from your LHBS might be a better deal considering time and gas.
I spent about $80 on mine, but got exactly what I needed without having to buy kits for single parts I needed. I found the 5/8" washers for $0.41 without having to buy a $4 bolt kit. My LHBS charges almost $140 after tax, so saving about $60 is definitely worth it - that's 3 recipes worth of ingridents for basic all grain beers.
klyph
Well-Known Member
The hardware really costs $40? Because you can order a Stainless steel bulkhead and valve for less than that.
I wanted to ping the group to see if anyone out there has had any issues with mash temperature stratification. I am fairly confident that my mash tun will hold the temp within 1 degree F near the bottom of the mash tun, but I am thinking it is a different story near the top. I am zeroing in on this as my issue with my finished beer since my attenuation numbers are in the 80 percentile. The other indicator is that my ABV is usually .75% to 1% over my target ABV. Now my SG is always within .0002 of my target. Thus, I am back to my mash as the culprit.
Anyone have any ideas short of going a RIMS route?
-Pikeman94
Anyone have any ideas short of going a RIMS route?
-Pikeman94
klyph
Well-Known Member
Have you considered beefing up the lid insulation with spray foam? Most of the lids are just hollow plastic.
klyph said:
This. My mlt was cool to the touch during mashing this past weekend, but the lid was quite warm. I am certain I am losing a lot of heat out of the top.
Filling with spray foam before my next brew day.
It's to weight the opposite end down and keep it at the bottom of the MLT.
I have used my 5 gallon cooler a lot more than the 10. I stir the mash once or twice during the hour because it gets cooler on the bottom. The top layer at first seems extremely stable, but it is so only because it is fed heat from below. The bottom layer cools first. I am converting to RIMS for this reason, and to be able to do step mash.
Nope. It would not be maintained anyway except for at the very top layer. The bottom layer will drop way below target, so by stirring it the temperature evens out throughout the mash. In the 5 gal cooler I drop about 3°F over 60 minutes. It should be less than that in a 10 gallon cooler but I don't have much experience with it yet.
PaulTheGhost
Well-Known Member
So I went to my lhbs today...
I talked with one of the more knowledgeable staff members about using a ten gallon cooler as my mlt and she recommended not to use one. She said they're not food grade (not what the description of the cooler says) and that you shouldn't use one because you can't heat it up at the end of the rest (I havnt read anywhere that this is necessary.) She also advised not to use one because her friend brewed a batch and it ended up tasting like bubblegum.
Can anyone shed some light on any of this? Seems like everyone has had good success with their mlts, so her information caught me by surprise.
I talked with one of the more knowledgeable staff members about using a ten gallon cooler as my mlt and she recommended not to use one. She said they're not food grade (not what the description of the cooler says) and that you shouldn't use one because you can't heat it up at the end of the rest (I havnt read anywhere that this is necessary.) She also advised not to use one because her friend brewed a batch and it ended up tasting like bubblegum.
Can anyone shed some light on any of this? Seems like everyone has had good success with their mlts, so her information caught me by surprise.
Sigh....That is what I feared. Since I don't have a large enough mash kettle, I may be forced into the RIMS world.
Of course I will have to test this out with about 6 gallons of water in my 10 gallon mash tun. I would lean towards how your mash tun is performing though.
One thought I had to try to combat this issue was to change out my tube with stainless steal mesh braiding for copper tubing with the stainless steal mesh braiding. Then, I could insert a paint stirring paddle through the lid and operate with a drill at a very low speed. My thought is that this would keep the temp mixed and stabilized throughout the mash.
Thoughts anyone?
Paul, the bubble gum flavor could be coming from the fermentation stage. If you don't hit that all magical 68 F, then you are going to notice other flavors in the beer. In my experience when I just left the beer in the basement and didn't pay attention to temp I got banana/bubble gum flavor. Come to find out my fermentation was hitting 72F-74F.
Now, I am noticing that these coolers are not holding a solid 154F temp throughout the mash. As others have stated the bottom of the mash will be significantly cooler than the top. What that does to the end product is give it a dry/alcohol burn finish. In my case, I have hit my SG, but since the mash happened at a much lower temp there is more fermentable sugar for the yeast to go after.
I am embarking on an experiment to try and "fix" this issue. I will keep the forum updated on my findings.
PaulTheGhost
Well-Known Member
I ferment in my closet, at about 65* on average (anywhere from 62*-68*), never above that. However, it's winter in nor cal right now so once spring starts heating things up I guess I'll have to figure out some way to keep it cooler.
Would it be acceptable to mash at say... 160* (2* above what is the normal max) and stir two or three times throughout the hour (with an insulated lid) to maintain temp of about 154, or would that release too much dextrin (depending on the style of brew)?
The 10 gallon cooler has smaller surface area to volume ratio so it should perform better than the 5 gallon one.
I believe this is what some professional breweries do. They have paddles that almost scrape the bottom of the mash tun to agitate the mash and spread the heat.
I was considering for a while to make a direct fired MLT keggle, using a motor to spin a shaft with paddles near the bottom, firing the burner occasionally to maintain temperature. I decided it was too complicated (much work) for me to construct so I put it on ice, but it is in no way out of reach for a handy person to do. Even without added heat it would be an improvement over the static cooler.
I need to add that I always fill the MLT to the very top, I tweak the recipe until it comes out that way. This improves heat retention because it has the maximum amount of hot mash to help maintain temperature. I would do the same with the larger cooler, but now that I am going RIMS it does not matter so much.
Tons of people use these including myself. Each to their own, i think they're great, keep temps awesomely and with batch sparging, I don't need to heat anyway. I find it hard to believe they are not food grade too.
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