Cheap & Easy 10 Gallon Rubbermaid MLT Conversion

[bigred]

So I made one of these out of a 48 qt coleman cooler. I did my first all grain batch with it today and I failed pretty bad. For my first runnings it flowed for 3 seconds and then slowed to a slow dribble. In the end I found that some grain had got threw the SS braid and clogged the ball valve.

Has anyone else had this problem? And how should I fix this for my next brew?

Thanks for any help

 

[Revvy]

So I made one of these out of a 48 qt coleman cooler. I did my first all grain batch with it today and I failed pretty bad. For my first runnings it flowed for 3 seconds and then slowed to a slow dribble. In the end I found that some grain had got threw the SS braid and clogged the ball valve.

Has anyone else had this problem? And how should I fix this for my next brew?

Thanks for any help

I answered it in your thread.

 

[Montanaandy]

Finally got around to assembling my Rubbermaid 10 gal MLT. Great instructions and pictures made it easy. A couple of things that I noted that I didn't see addressed in the earlier portion of the thread that I thought I would pass along:

I didn't see the ID/OD of the 5/8" "O" ring listed so I got a few from the hardware store with different ID/OD dimensions. The thicker O ring fit perfectly rather than the thinner ones- I need to go back and find out the ID/OD of the O ring that I used in the event that I want to convert another cooler into an HLT. I also found out from the owner of the local Hardware Hank who called the manufacturer of the O rings that neoprene O rings are heat rated to 240' F which should be sufficient for MLT or HLT purposes.

Pay attention to which way the rubber gasket is seated on the spigot that comes with the cooler if you remove it since you will be using it again as part of the assembly. One end is a larger diameter than the other which I didn't realize until I had already disassembled the cooler spigot (assumed they were equal size). I am blanking as to whether the larger gasket end is inside the cooler or outside of the cooler (I will have to take a look) but it makes a difference. This is fairly apparent once you get into things but it is another detail that could force you to re-assemble if you put it in backwards.

Thanks again to Flyguy for the great instructions and pictures. Montanaandy

 

[limulus]

neoprene O rings are heat rated to 240' F which should be sufficient for MLT or HLT purposes.
Montanaandy

That's good to know. I used a large neoprene washer on my Coleman 10g beverage cooler.

 

[boogyman]

Maybe my home depot is more expensive or something, but after going there tonight and pricing out parts for just the inside screen (stainless braid, brass plug, brass nipple) it was almost $15+tax for just those parts. I just ordered the all stainless screen from bargainfittings for $14 + $5 shipping.. so $4 extra to have it assembled, all stainless, and shipped to my door.

at least the 10gal cooler at home depot was still $40...

 

[FlyGuy]

Maybe my home depot is more expensive or something, but after going there tonight and pricing out parts for just the inside screen (stainless braid, brass plug, brass nipple) it was almost $15+tax for just those parts.

Wow -- that's absurdly expensive. I can get all those parts at my local Rona (like a Lowes) for $6 or $7 Canadian. Time to find a new hardware store, man.

 

[boogyman]

Wow -- that's absurdly expensive. I can get all those parts at my local Rona (like a Lowes) for $6 or $7 Canadian. Time to find a new hardware store, man.

heh, no kidding. ... welcome to california.

 

[msa8967]

Are there any final recommendations to the parts list for this conversion kit? Reading through the long list of replies for this assembly I noted at least a dozen different recommendations on materials to buy and thus I am not sure if the initial listing of materials is still the best way to go.

 

[rico567]

I know I put it -somewhere- in this thread, but I like it well enough I'll put it in again. I got the standard Bargain Fittings kit for this cooler, including the braid assembly, and it's worked out great.

 

[Montanaandy]

"Are there any final recommendations to the parts list for this conversion kit?" Go to the first page of the thread if you want to go 3/8". Somewhere buried in the thread are the instructions/parts list for 1/2".

I do have one question re: the parts list/pictures. I build mine using the Fastenal 5/8" SS washers (both 1 inside and 3 outside). In the picture on the first page of the thread the interior washer looks much smaller than the exterior washers even though they are all listed as 5/8". Is the interior washer a different OD than the exterior washers? If so what size washer should I be looking for. This may account for the "gap" that I have on the interior of the cooler where the washer meets the wall of the cooler. Thanks, Montanaandy

 

[FlyGuy]

I know I put it -somewhere- in this thread, but I like it well enough I'll put it in again. I got the standard Bargain Fittings kit for this cooler, including the braid assembly, and it's worked out great.

Yes, we know. You have only said it about 6 or 7 times now. Geez man. You never even TRIED the build described in this thread -- why do you have to knock it so much. Lots of us have used this design and it works flawlessly for much, much less than the off-the-shelf solutions. If a guy wants to DIY a solution, let him. Yeesh.

"Are there any final recommendations to the parts list for this conversion kit?" Go to the first page of the thread if you want to go 3/8". Somewhere buried in the thread are the instructions/parts list for 1/2".

I do have one question re: the parts list/pictures. I build mine using the Fastenal 5/8" SS washers (both 1 inside and 3 outside). In the picture on the first page of the thread the interior washer looks much smaller than the exterior washers even though they are all listed as 5/8". Is the interior washer a different OD than the exterior washers? If so what size washer should I be looking for. This may account for the "gap" that I have on the interior of the cooler where the washer meets the wall of the cooler. Thanks, Montanaandy

The instructions provided here are for 3/8" fittings because they fit perfectly with the original through-the-wall seal from the Rubbermaid cooler. You can go to 1/2" fittings, but they may not t fit the seal adequately and you might have to substitute a high temp rubber o-ring inside the cooler. They don't always seal perfectly because of the soft plastic wall (which is also a bit curved inside). Bobby_M has a great design to overcome this issue, though, where he uses a short piece of pvc around the nipple to reinforce the wall.

If your washers are Stainless Steel they should be fine. The outside diameter is not all that important. They are just meant to provide a bit of leverage to secure the fittings. Some people actually get away without the inside washer entirely.

 

[MVKTR2]

FlyGuy thanks for your contribution to my and countless others enjoyment of this hobby. I built my cooler/mlt based off of your original design. It's worked great ever since... almost. That was almost 20 months and 16 or so AG batches ago.

Problem: I recently purchased a corona mill, built a milling station and mashed my first brew. It was almost stuck, very slow so I knew I needed to do something.

Solution: Before brewing a second batch I purchased an approx. 1' length of 1/4" copper tubing. Used a grinder to grind holes all along the bottom of it, nothing pretty just as many as close together as possible. I took off the braided hose from my mlt, slipped this inside with the slots facing down and put it back together.

Results: 84% efficiency, bumped up from 78ish pre corona mill using hb store crush. This is a great soulution/addition to this design. I even bent the copper pipe by hand to make it lie flat across the bottom of the mlt and rise up to the liquid exit point/nipple.

Thanks again FlyGuy and I hope my addition can be used by anyone having trouble with their braided hose collapsing/clogging causing slow sparges. Also it worked great to boost my eff.

Schlante,
Phillip

Ps I'm sure I'm not the first to do or suggest this, I'm just not willing to read 900+ post to keep from reposting. Sorry if this is old news, but I'm excited about hitting 84%!!!

 

[FlyGuy]

FlyGuy thanks for your contribution to my and countless others enjoyment of this hobby. I built my cooler/mlt based off of your original design. It's worked great ever since... almost. That was almost 20 months and 16 or so AG batches ago.

Problem: I recently purchased a corona mill, built a milling station and mashed my first brew. It was almost stuck, very slow so I knew I needed to do something.

Solution: Before brewing a second batch I purchased an approx. 1' length of 1/4" copper tubing. Used a grinder to grind holes all along the bottom of it, nothing pretty just as many as close together as possible. I took off the braided hose from my mlt, slipped this inside with the slots facing down and put it back together.

Results: 84% efficiency, bumped up from 78ish pre corona mill using hb store crush. This is a great soulution/addition to this design. I even bent the copper pipe by hand to make it lie flat across the bottom of the mlt and rise up to the liquid exit point/nipple.

Thanks again FlyGuy and I hope my addition can be used by anyone having trouble with their braided hose collapsing/clogging causing slow sparges. Also it worked great to boost my eff.

Schlante,
Phillip

Ps I'm sure I'm not the first to do or suggest this, I'm just not willing to read 900+ post to keep from reposting. Sorry if this is old news, but I'm excited about hitting 84%!!!

Excellent stuff Phillip -- glad to hear your build worked out so well. Regarding the pipe inside the braid, I am actually about to try something similar myself (with a round manifold for fly sparging and recirc). Glad to hear yours worked (apparently there are some skeptics out there that this is a bad idea).

 

[Montanaandy]

I actually have gone back to the "bare" SS braid after trying to use the PVC that came with the braid with holes drilled in it. The braid + PVC combo worked just fine when I tested in a dry run with water but when I went added my strike water when brewing an AG batch this morning I ended up with a stuck sparge (tried blowing into the tubing and all the other tricks to no avail). Fortunately I have another Rubbermaid that I use as an HLT so I dumped everything into that, covered it and took the stuck MLT downstairs to remove the PVC from the braid. Dumped everything back in the MLT and it worked like a charm (including the sparge later on). Montanaandy

 

[FlyGuy]

I actually have gone back to the "bare" SS braid after trying to use the PVC that came with the braid with holes drilled in it. The braid + PVC combo worked just fine when I tested in a dry run with water but when I went added my strike water when brewing an AG batch this morning I ended up with a stuck sparge (tried blowing into the tubing and all the other tricks to no avail). Fortunately I have another Rubbermaid that I use as an HLT so I dumped everything into that, covered it and took the stuck MLT downstairs to remove the PVC from the braid. Dumped everything back in the MLT and it worked like a charm (including the sparge later on). Montanaandy

Rigid tubing inside braid is not the same thing as flexible tubing. Too many people are using flexible tubing that cannot stand the temperatures of the mash, and they collapse and cause a stuck mash. I strongly advocate (throughout this thread) to NOT put flexible tubing inside your braid. You are just asking for trouble unless you are absolutely sure it can withstand the heat.

Rigid tubing on the other hand, is fine.

 

[Montanaandy]

I just used the braided white tubing that came with the SS braid which is stiff. I drilled holes throughout the tubing (series of 4 runs along the length of the tubing) and as I mentioned it worked great during a "dry run" with water. I have no idea why it became stuck when I used it in the MLT. Ironically, the reason I put the tube back in the SS braid was because I had a kink in the bare SS braid (the middle of the braid) the last time I lautered/sparged and I wanted to avoid this happening again. Go figure. Montanaandy

 

[FlyGuy]

I just used the braided white tubing that came with the SS braid which is stiff. I drilled holes throughout the tubing (series of 4 runs along the length of the tubing) and as I mentioned it worked great during a "dry run" with water. I have no idea why it became stuck when I used it in the MLT. Ironically, the reason I put the tube back in the SS braid was because I had a kink in the bare SS braid (the middle of the braid) the last time I lautered/sparged and I wanted to avoid this happening again. Go figure. Montanaandy

This works well for many people, but I still don't recommend it. Too easy to have something block the tubing and cause a stuck mash.

Those SS braids are very hard to collapse, so you are best off using just that. There should be no need to place anything inside.

 

[Montanaandy]

The problem that I have had with the SS braid without the tubing is that it collapsed in the middle for some reason (reminded me of those Chinese finger toys that we had as kids that would lock onto your fingers but then it would collapse in the middle when you tried to wiggle loose). Don't know if that is causing the stuck sparge or not. It may be the specific SS braid. I got this one at Ace. Lowes carrys the SS Watkins (sp?) or the same brand as the parts for the MLT conversion. I think that I will try one of those. Thanks, Montanaandy

 

[FlyGuy]

The problem that I have had with the SS braid without the tubing is that it collapsed in the middle for some reason (reminded me of those Chinese finger toys that we had as kids that would lock onto your fingers but then it would collapse in the middle when you tried to wiggle loose). Don't know if that is causing the stuck sparge or not. It may be the specific SS braid. I got this one at Ace. Lowes carrys the SS Watkins (sp?) or the same brand as the parts for the MLT conversion. I think that I will try one of those. Thanks, Montanaandy

I have heard of this only a few times. I suspect it was just a poor quality braid. That's a bummer.

I am not sure what brands I have been using lately, but they cost about $3 for a 12" hose and are almost impossible to crush (they definitely wouldn't collapse under the weight of the mash).

 

[Revvy]

The problem that I have had with the SS braid without the tubing is that it collapsed in the middle for some reason (reminded me of those Chinese finger toys that we had as kids that would lock onto your fingers but then it would collapse in the middle when you tried to wiggle loose). Don't know if that is causing the stuck sparge or not. It may be the specific SS braid. I got this one at Ace. Lowes carrys the SS Watkins (sp?) or the same brand as the parts for the MLT conversion. I think that I will try one of those. Thanks, Montanaandy

That's why many of us take out the nylon insert, put a bunch of holes in it, and replace it inside the braid....Others do the same think with a piece of tubing. It adds a bit of reenforcement to the braid.

 

[Montanaandy]

Flyguy - Yeah the braid was not as strong as the one you are describing so I will probably get another at Lowes which is not a big deal as long as I can avoid the stuck sparges. It worked great once I took the tubing out but I don't want to have to cross my fingers each time I brew AG so I am going to get a new, stronger braid. Thanks for the tip.

Revvy - I did take out and drill the insert which worked great in a trial run with water but it clogged up for some reason when I was mashing/sparging. Ironic because I had trouble with the SS braid without the tubing the 1st time (clogging) and figured that the tubing would improve things. Thanks, Montanaandy

 

[duffman2]

You don't want to use plated hose clamps. You might risk getting metallic off flavours in your beer. Even so-called stainless steel hose clamps led to problems for me (see post #62 in this thread).

My solution was to insert some high temp vinyl tubing inside the SS braid. I cut a whole bunch of holes in the tubing to allow the wort to drain through. The fit was pretty tight, and I was simply able to insert the tubing over the barb connector. It works great, and comes off easily for quick cleaning. No clamps required!

So, do you think this tubing inside of the braid idea a better alternative to just using the braid and zip ties to hold it down? Just curious is the tubing inside the braid might restrict the wort flow just a bit?

 

[FlyGuy]

So, do you think this tubing inside of the braid idea a better alternative to just using the braid and zip ties to hold it down? Just curious is the tubing inside the braid might restrict the wort flow just a bit?

In post #62 I retracted this suggestion because so many people were having trouble finding the correct tubing, and substituting soft tubing that was collapsing in the heat of the mash and causing stuck sparges.

EDIT: If you use the tubing insert idea instead of hose clamps to secure your braid, you MUST use stiff, high temp, food grade tubing. This works exceptionally for myself and many other people. However, if you use rubber tubing, or soft tubing, or tubing that is not rated for high temperatures, it will collapse under its own weight inside the SS braid and cause a stuck sparge. Further, you do not need the tubing to reinforce the SS braid -- it should not collapse under the weight of the mash (if it does you either have a deceivingly similar-looking plastic braid, or the quality of your SS braid is too poor to use in an MLT).

While mine works VERY well, I no longer recommend putting tubing inside your braid, unfortunately.

 

[Jawbox0]

I suspect that braids which work great on a 5 gallon MLT fail on the 10g with twice the weight of grain on water on it. I'd suggest creating a PVC manifold on a bigger cooler.

 

[FlyGuy]

I suspect that braids which work great on a 5 gallon MLT fail on the 10g with twice the weight of grain on water on it. I'd suggest creating a PVC manifold on a bigger cooler.

Nope. I have had the same braid in my cooler since I first built it. It is starting to wear down now, but it has never collapsed, even when I did 11 gal brews and the cooler was full of grain. But if one is really worried, say in a huge mash tuns of 20 gals or bigger, just get a beefier braid (e.g., water heater braided hose).

When used properly, braids can be superior to manifolds because they filter the grainbed better and have more points of collection that are better distributed. In fact, some swear by putting a braid over a manifold to improve clarity of lautering.

 

[Gritsak]

Is there much benifit from creating a circle of braided hose around the bottom of the cooler opposed to the single straight hose that is used in the OP's conversion?

 

[Montanaandy]

"But if one is really worried, say in a huge mash tuns of 20 gals or bigger, just get a beefier braid (e.g., water heater braided hose)".

Flyguy - water heater hose is 3/4" in diameter while the parts for the MLT build are 3/8" or sometimes 1/2". Is the idea to just clamp down the 3/4" SS hose onto the 3/8" on the interior part of the MLT? Thanks, Montanaandy

 

[FlyGuy]

Is there much benifit from creating a circle of braided hose around the bottom of the cooler opposed to the single straight hose that is used in the OP's conversion?

The circular braided hose design apparently works well if you want to fly sparge with the MLT. A false bottom or slotted manifold would also work well. If you only want to batch sparge, then the straight section of braided hose is ideal.

 

[FlyGuy]

Flyguy - water heater hose is 3/4" in diameter while the parts for the MLT build are 3/8" or sometimes 1/2". Is the idea to just clamp down the 3/4" SS hose onto the 3/8" on the interior part of the MLT? Thanks, Montanaandy[/QUOTE]

You can either buy a reducing fitting to clamp on to, or if you can compress the braid evenly, just clamp it down.

 

[chunk]

flyguy - thanks for this and other great diy projects. i built mine using 3/4" water heater hose and the braid didn't come out looking too pretty after removing the hose. is this a problem or do you think this will work? thanks.