Chcolate orange stout recipe help

[shushikiary]

So I've already brewed this, and it came out alright, but I want more chocolate flavor, and the orange is very over powering right now, but that I mean there is a lot of citrus flavor, I'd like to enahnce the orange flavor without more citrus (so coriander added to the revised, maybe reduce the orange peel?). The bottles are only 2 weeks old, so I know it will mellow with time, so perhaps that is one of my problems right now is I just need to let it sit, but I wanted to see what you guys thought of the first and revised recipies (the revised one is the one I hope to use next time, and I want input on both of them).

Original:
7 lbs Light Dry Extract (8.0 SRM) Dry Extract 87.50 %
8.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 6.25 %
4.0 oz Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 3.13 %
4.0 oz Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 3.13 %
1.00 oz Northern Brewer [11.00 %] (60 min) Hops 37.9 IBU
1.00 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] (15 min) Hops 7.7 IBU
1.00 oz Orange Peel, Sweet (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
1.00 items Vanilla bean (Secondary 2.0 weeks) Misc
2.00 oz Bakers Chocolate (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
8.00 oz Lactose (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs British Ale (White Labs #WLP005) Yeast-Ale


Revised:
7 lbs Light Dry Extract (8.0 SRM) Dry Extract 84.85 %
12.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 9.09 %
4.0 oz Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 3.03 %
4.0 oz Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 3.03 %
0.50 oz Northern Brewer [11.00 %] (60 min) Hops 18.9 IBU
0.50 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] (15 min) Hops 3.8 IBU
0.50 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 min) Misc (crushed)
0.50 oz Coriander Seed (Secondary 2.0 weeks) Misc
1.00 oz Orange Peel, Sweet (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
2.00 items Vanilla bean (Secondary 2.0 weeks) Misc
8.00 oz Chocolate nibs (Secondary 2.0 weeks) Misc
16.00 oz Lactose (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs British Ale (White Labs #WLP005) Yeast-Ale

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

I've got one simpler. Brew a dry stout. Add Kaluha and Gran Marnier in the glass.

Whalah!

 

[shushikiary]

lol, I suppose, but I'd rather get it out of the recipe, haha.

 

[Revvy]

I like this idea. I was just googling to see if there were recipes out there. It turns out that there's a few actually on here, and I just scrolled down, and noticed that they happen to be in the similar threads box below.

You know what might work? I may try it for a test batch some day.

Terry's and I think Cadbury also make them, they are fantastic. It's a nice balance between chocolate and orange flavors. They used to be only available around Christmas (it's a tradition in my family to have them) but I think they are now available year round.

You could add them in the last 5-10 minutes of the boil. Heck I make my chocolate mole porter with a bunch of chocolate in the mash tun, I might even do that.

If you haven't had them, they are solid pre-scored chocolate infused with orange flavor.

 

[shushikiary]

When I brewed this I used the dried sweet orange peel from the LHBS. I'm thinking that next time I'll use actual orange zest from one of the sweet variety of oranges from the grocery store.

The more I read on this I read conflicting reports. Some say that coriander will bring out the orange flavor, some say it will only add a citrus favor. Some suggest adding the juice of the oranges, some suggest adding the orange zest to the secondary.

I guess I'll just have to keep experimenting until I get what I want. What I know I want is more chocolate flavor (so upped the chocolate malt, and using cocoa nibs in secondary), from what I've heard people say using cocoa powder or any chocolate in the boil reduces its flavor and gives inconsistent results. I want to reduce the citrus flavor so I'll try orange zest instead of the dried orange peel, and I'll try enhancing it with the coriander and we'll see what happens.

Anyone with experience brewing something like this and experimenting with it, I would love to hear what you have to say.

Oh, and the chocolate orange you posted is EXACTLY what I had in mind when I thought up this beer, lol. Not sure how I feel about actually adding one to the boil though. Many people say stay away from milk chocolate and other sweetened chocolates in the boil (or at all).

I'll try to keep this thread updated with what I find from my experimentation..

 

[Revvy]

Oh, and the chocolate orange you posted is EXACTLY what I had in mind when I thought up this beer, lol. Not sure how I feel about actually adding one to the boil though. Many people say stay away from milk chocolate and other sweetened chocolates in the boil (or at all).

I'll try to keep this thread updated with what I find from my experimentation..

I don't know who your many people are, but many people HAVE been successfull adding chocolate to the boil, including me. If a bronze medal in the fruit, vegetable, spice category at the World Expo of Beer is any indication of success.

 

[QuixoticDevice]

Ooooh, and here I thought I was being original... I had this very same notion after a buddy in my brew club was talking about brewing a mexican chocolate pepper porter using malted corn. My plan, as I described to the club was, "Think of a Tobler Chocolate Orange, but it's beer!" so Revvy's got the right idea.
This is without having tried it, but I was thinking of using baker's chocolate late in the boil (like shushikiary's original recipe) to add that baseline chocolatey bitterness and mouthfeel AND racking onto nibs in the secondary (like in the revised recipe) to add what I hope will be a bit more sweetness and creaminess. Again, I may be speaking out of school, but that's my general plan. I'm hoping to give it a shot fairly soon, so it'll be ready and drinkable around Christmas time.
That's if I can make it drinkable at all...

 

[shushikiary]

Yea, I think I'll try it without the chocolate in the boil and see how it is, and then I'll know what each one does to the flavor and then perhaps add it back into the boil.