CF or Plate Chillers and cold break?

[Gadjobrinus]

I know commercial makers us plate chillers all the time. Personally, I've always used immersion coils to good effect for 12 or less gallons. One reason I love them, after whirlpool and settling, everything (most everything, relative term) is left behind in the BK. Pretty dang clear wort transferred to the fermentor.

I'm balking at the therminator because I don't see a way around transferring this cold break into the fermentor. Not that it matters much, if at all, but I do think about this.

1. Thoughts on cold break in the fermentor?

2. It isn't uncommon for commercial breweries to transfer first to a settling tank, then on to the fermentors. What do you think of this practice? Obviously, aseptic technique - but I think anything cold side, you have to, anyway (one guy at Goose Island, I kid you not, used to quickly flame his hands).

 

[day_trippr]

Some folks recirculate through their PC or CFC then let the wort settle (~20 mins was a frequently used duration) before drawing off the wort to the fermentor.
I don't think that's much different than pumping the entire boil through a chiller to a settling tank then drawing that off - except the boil kettle is presumed sanitized already, and you don't incur the expense and maintenance of yet another vessel.

As for cold break, I don't worry about it if some/most ends up in the fermentor...

Cheers!

 

[Gadjobrinus]

Some folks recirculate through their PC or CFC then let the wort settle (~20 mins was a frequently used duration) before drawing off the wort to the fermentor.
I don't think that's much different than pumping the entire boil through a chiller to a settling tank then drawing that off - except the boil kettle is presumed sanitized already, and you don't incur the expense and maintenance of yet another vessel.

As for cold break, I don't worry about it if some/most ends up in the fermentor...

Cheers!

OK, thanks trippr. So, what about the WP cone? Depending on the beer, my process if wp hopping is some kind of steep (long or short - I may begin wp right away, for lesser-aroma beers), the wp, then the settling.

If you recirc through the BK, how do you deal with the WP cone? Or do you draw all of that through, it cools, you whirlpool, you settle - and you figure some SOP based on this method, in terms of post-boil hopping?

One easy solution I could see would be to do the recirc through the (already cleaned) MLT, with the false bottom removed. So the transfer from the BK proceeds as normal, cone is left behind, and, hot, begins recirc into the mash tun. More labor, but....

 

[day_trippr]

I know some folks do it, but I would not recommend recirculating through a PC if free-swimming hops are involved. Not sure about a CFC - I suspect it's ok with pellets but I know for sure you can jamb one up with whole hops (saw it happen, rough time for the brewer).

Loose hops aside, if your BK is set up for a whirlpool you'd just be...whirlpooling.
If you can make a cone without the chiller in the loop it should still cone up with it in the loop...

Cheers!

 

[Gadjobrinus]

Interestingly, just read through MBS II a bit. A Swiss study concluded that there was a wide distribution of cold break independent of the method. And that the presence of cold break "on fermentation, maturation, and beer clarification were not significant." (pg. 523)

On the other hand, the study also showed that on further fermentations, the panels went from preferring "non-cold break removal" beers to beer where partial removal had been practiced.

He draws from other studies to conclude: cold trub may aid fermentation rate by providing nucleation sites for CO2 release; on the other hand, "with more delicate beers," panelists may have picked up negative sulphury aroma and taste.

Conclusion? As with so much, (let's say, "a billion colors" on a top-flight flat screen TV), I'm not sure these elements are all that important. But they're interesting, and they do make me think. As for this issue, I don't personally know any craft brewery that doesn't use a plate cooler, and all transfer cold break into the CCV. But then, they can dump the CCV cone section.

Open fermentor? Coolships? Off the top, cold break left behind, into the open vessel.

It's not settled....

 

[Gadjobrinus]

I know some folks do it, but I would not recommend recirculating through a PC if free-swimming hops are involved. Not sure about a CFC - I suspect it's ok with pellets but I know for sure you can jamb one up with whole hops (saw it happen, rough time for the brewer).

Loose hops aside, if your BK is set up for a whirlpool you'd just be...whirlpooling.
If you can make a cone without the chiller in the loop it should still cone up with it in the loop...

Cheers!

Good thoughts, trippr. I suspect I'd be inviting trouble if recirc'ing with hops in action (I do use pellets). Besides, my recipes are devised around a given hot side WP and rest, etc. Sounds like the way to go might be to move to another vessel, or just stick with the immersion coil. To be honest 50' of coil has always performed well, but I've never gone more than 12 gallons. With this system being larger, I am doubting that former experience.

So - what do people do about their hops, when using a PC? I presume just ignore the issue of cold break in the fermentor, as it seems like you do, trippr? (I'm overthinking this. I know.).

 

[day_trippr]

I almost always have some post-boil WP hop additions these days, and at the end I'll kill the pump and let the kettle settle for five minutes or so while getting the plumbing and carboys set up for chilling (single pass to the carboys). In that time a decent amount of trub will drop out in the center and be left behind, which is fine but to be honest it's not a major goal, as I don't think cold break is detrimental - at least to the styles I brew...

Cheers!

[edit] As it's kinda pertinent, I'll add that I use a 6"d x 18" 400 micron SS hop spider.