Cereal Mash in Brewfather

[jasonclick]

i'm brewing an american lager today. part of my recipe was flaked rice but my LHBS is out so i figured i coud do a ceral mash for the rice portion. my question is, how do you add the ceral mash to the recipe in Brewfather? I this beer turns out ok, i'd like to be able to brew it again. Is there a way of adding 2 mashes or add it to the existing mash? I'm a step by step and documenting kind of brewer so i'd like to plug it into the software somehow.

 

[DasBrut]

This thread is pretty old but I have the same issue and wanted to know if you found an acceptable solution.

 

[DuncB]

Put the quantity of rice into brewfather.
Liquid used for cereal mash is part of your total mash water volume. Account for the losses of the rice boil. You could weigh the rice and water before and after the cereal mash to work out the water loss, then add this hot into your grain mash. Bear in mind this raises your mash temp like a decoction.

Or have I misunderstood your question.

Word of warning if you mill the rice and then do your cereal mash if the mix is not dilute enough you end up with a big block of starch.

 

[DasBrut]

Thanks, this mostly makes sense. My hangup is that Brewfather doesn’t have a “rice, dry unflaked grain” option, so I didn’t know if that affected any parameters. I guess it shouldn’t be different from flaked rice.

 

[DuncB]

I can't see unflaked or flaked making any difference to the points of sugar available.

 

[hungupdown]

There seems to conflicting figures being given for just flaked rice. Some saying PPG 32, others saying 40.
No idea which is correct, or if there's really a range of possible values.
So maybe pog variation from using whole rice, wouldn't be significant.

I do wonder if the type of rice might matter. As glutenous 'sticky' rice, has most starch in the form of amylopectin, with much lower levels found in regular rice.

 

[IslandLizard]

"Flaked" rice is (most likely) pre-gelatinized, similar to instant rice. So you can use it directly in your mash.
Or pre-boil it in enough water (say 30-60 minutes) until it's a thin soup/paste, then add it to your mash. Mash for an hour, as usual.

Whole rice (kernels) are not pre-gelatinized.

To pre-gelatinize whole rice kernels, boil (or steam) them, until they're mush.
So boil up your rice in sufficient water for 30-60 minutes. Use 2-3x the volume of your rice, so 2-3 cups of water to 1 cup of rice. Once it boils, turn the heat down, and let it slowly simmer, stirring occasionally. Top up with more water if needed.

Then you use that rice mush in your mash, together with diastatic malts and other (non-diastatic) adjuncts.

 

[mashdar]

There seems to conflicting figures being given for just flaked rice. Some saying PPG 32, others saying 40.
No idea which is correct, or if there's really a range of possible values.
So maybe pog variation from using whole rice, wouldn't be significant.

I do wonder if the type of rice might matter. As glutenous 'sticky' rice, has most starch in the form of amylopectin, with much lower levels found in regular rice.

40 is hard to believe. That's almost as high as pure dextrose.

 

[hungupdown]

40 is hard to believe. That's almost as high as pure dextrose.

Brewfather lists:
Dextrose. 1.046 ppg.
Breiss Wheat white malt 1.039 ppg.
Base malt typically 1.037 ppg.
Crisp Torrified rice 1.037
Flake rice 1.032

Where rice has low nitrogen levels, that could give increased starch extraction, compared to barley.

 

[mashdar]

Brewfather lists:
Dextrose. 1.046 ppg.
Breiss Wheat white malt 1.039 ppg.
Base malt typically 1.037 ppg.
Crisp Torrified rice 1.037
Flake rice 1.032

Where rice has low nitrogen levels, that could give increased starch extraction, compared to barley.

Sucrose is 46ppg, dextrose is 42.
And breiss white wheat published FG extract 83%, so 38ppg.

edit: Looked up a rice flake extract. Briess doesn't seem to publish data that I could find, but BSG says 80.6% for Rahr, or 37ppg.

40 would be 89% extract, which just seems bonkers.

 

[VikeMan]

And breiss white wheat published FG extract 83%, so 38ppg.

That's 83% Fine Grind Dry Basis (according to https://www.brewingwithbriess.com/wp-content/uploads/documents/Briess-PISB-Wheat-Malt-White.pdf). To get PPG, moisture (5% in this case) also has to be accounted for.

PPG = DBFG x (1 - Moisture) x 46.21 PPG
= 0.83 x (1-0.05) x 46.21 PPG
= 36.4 PPG

 

[mashdar]

That's 83% Fine Grind Dry Basis (according to https://www.brewingwithbriess.com/wp-content/uploads/documents/Briess-PISB-Wheat-Malt-White.pdf). To get PPG, moisture (5% in this case) also has to be accounted for.

PPG = DBFG x (1 - Moisture) x 46.21 PPG
= 0.83 x (1-0.05) x 46.21 PPG
= 36.4 PPG

Does brewfather have a separate moisture field, perhaps? That might explain the dextrose, too.

 

[VikeMan]

Does brewfather have a separate moisture field, perhaps? That might explain the dextrose, too.

I don't use Brewfather, but I've looked at their documentation, and it appears they expect (as they should) users to account for moisture when computing the PPG to be input when adding a malt to the database.

Regarding "46 PPG" for dextrose, that's a pretty common error, or at least it used to be.