Cellared Beer Reviews

[iong516]

The 375s of the Hanssens were actually very good, but the older 750s were gross. Agree on the Thomas Hardy crapshoot, I think I had a '2006 yesterday that was awesome?

 

[BeersMorgan]

What does a bottle of 1987 Hardys go for? I've always wanted to have a beer from my birth year but have never had the chance. The one time I was at Toranado they had an 88 but no 87s.

 

[PrinceCasual]

What does a bottle of 1987 Hardys go for? I've always wanted to have a beer from my birth year but have never had the chance. The one time I was at Toranado they had an 88 but no 87s.

Damn I need an 88.

I wish the 'new' THA was available stateside (or near me if it is in some states). I buy the **** out of The Bruery Anniversary beers, and OSA, but I would like to start accumulating some of the classic.

 

[brian4beer]

GoM 2013
Brewed w coffee aged in oak

I obtained this shortly after the release. Drink one bottle fresh and just found this one hiding in my cellar for the past six years behind some old BADLs.

-Pours w a lively head that dissipates quickly to a good lace
-Nose very faint coffee and roasted caramel
-mouthfeel thin by todays motor oil standards but not in a bad way
-tastes slightly oxidized but still some coffee and faint barrel quality left.

Decent overall like 4.0. I had this fresh and was better but not bad after this many years.

 

[davey101]

Damn I need an 88.

I wish the 'new' THA was available stateside (or near me if it is in some states). I buy the **** out of The Bruery Anniversary beers, and OSA, but I would like to start accumulating some of the classic.

I actually just purchased three new Thomas Hardy's yesterday in MA. The standard 2017, a 50th anniversary, and I think a scotch barrel aged version.

 

[PrinceCasual]

I actually just purchased three new Thomas Hardy's yesterday in MA. The standard 2017, a 50th anniversary, and I think a scotch barrel aged version.

Dang, I did not know they were available stateside Roughly, ballpark, how much did those set you back? I always thought these were relatively inexpensive, at least by modern standards. I just sent a line to someone at a store in DC, to investigate for me.

I would be buying the hell out of all of those types.

 

[davey101]

Dang, I did not know they were available stateside Roughly, ballpark, how much did those set you back? I always thought these were relatively inexpensive, at least by modern standards. I just sent a line to someone at a store in DC, to investigate for me.

I would be buying the hell out of all of those types.

They ranged from $9-11/ea. I thought pretty reasonable, the scotch one is obviously only a 250 ml though.

 

[pen15clubmember]

They ranged from $9-11/ea. I thought pretty reasonable, the scotch one is obviously only a 250 ml though.

I had the 50 year (2018) recently and it was excellent. Planning to buy more to lay down for a few years. ~$10 out here, too, tho not very widely available.

 

[mjohnson171]

New Glarus - Wild Peach. The R&D released in Summer 2014.

That vibrant orange color has morphed into a muddled orangeish-brown. The nose, which used to be gummy peach rings, has definitely changed to more subtle peach. I got more nutty peach pit than fresh peach flesh. The taste is muted and a bit muddled. Still pretty tasty but not vibrant, not peachy, just more subdued with a whiff of peach pit and more of sour golden ale taste. One might not even be able to guess there was peach in this.

 

[thewimperoo]

New Glarus - Wild Peach. The R&D released in Summer 2014.

That vibrant orange color has morphed into a muddled orangeish-brown. The nose, which used to be gummy peach rings, and definitely changed to more subtle peach. I got more nutty peach pit than fresh peach flesh. The taste is muted and a bit muddled. Still pretty tasty but not vibrant, not peachy, just more subdued with a whiff of peach pit and more of sour golden ale taste.

Oh this reminded me. Opened a bottle of New Glarus R&D Pomme Sauvage this past weekend. Released September 2016. The beer has dried out extensively, and the brett funk levels are quite high. Fresh it was very reminiscent of a semi-dry apple cider. The very distinct apple character has fallen far into the background. I enjoyed it quite a bit more than the last time I had opened a bottle in 2018.

 

[stupac2]

I drank a 2016 BCBS last night expecting it to be kinda garbage, but it was pretty enjoyable. Very different from the '14/'13 I've also had recently, smoother and more like an aged barleywine than a stout, if that makes sense. I didn't have much hope for these but maybe they'll actually age decently...

 

[stakem1]

Toronado did a thing today:

Unknown age Hanssens Gueuze. I've had mid-90's Gueuzes from Hanssens at Toronado before (and later, too!), and they were in the standard label, so I would assume this is early 90's at the youngest. At any rate, it sure tasted old! Like a blend of sherry, still lambic, and balsamic vinegar. I bet jedwards would've loved it. Glad to try something with a label lambic.info hasn't seen before, but it wasn't good.

3F 1999: Amazing. This beer has always been spectacular and it continues to be phenomenal. Light, funk for days, pleasant mild acidity. Basically perfect.

1996 Bruocsella: On the other hand... This was not good. It was about halfway down the road the Hanssens was traveling. Also it smelled kinda like tuna fish? Weird. I've had some similarly old Bruocsella before that was great, and supposedly at least one of the other bottles today was good, but mine wasn't.

1987 JW Lees. This was fantastic, nice caramel/toffee, rich sugar plums, very light touch of acidity from age. Can't expect much better from a 32-year-old bottle.

1988 JW Lees. Just a touch worse than the '87, a little more of the unpleasant oxidation flavors, but still overall quite nice.

1989 JW Lees. On the other hand... this was horrid. Super sour, gross oxidation flavors. Really unfortunately bad bottle.

1990 JW Lees. This one was a nice improvement after the '89, but a clear step down from the other two. Less of the nice sherry/plum/toffee, more musty basement.

1993 Tom Hardy's. They had a 24-bottle case of this and I wish I could've hung out for longer and goaded them into selling me some, because this was nice. I'd say I enjoyed it about in line with '90 Lees, but it was much different. It was more like a dark chocolate bar, rather than a caramel plum. I've had more Lees than Hardy's, but I've had some Hardy's and don't recall that, it was neat.

2000 Stille Nacht Reserva (!!!!!!). I legitimately thought I'd never get to try this. It was never on any menus at the places it might show up in Belgium, and it was far too whaley for me to trade for. I also never cared too much since I don't recall the other vintages being up my alley, but this was really nice. It was lightly sour, but mostly just nice and fruity with some depth from the oxidation over time. It was delightful and I'm glad I tried it, and mystified at how long it lasted (I easily could have gotten multiple pours).

Fantome Winter 1998: I wasn't expecting to like these 'Tomes, but they were actually really good! This one was kinda like a blend of the SNR and one of the Lees, it had the backbone of a barleywine but a tartness over the top that worked better than you might expect.

Fantome Hiver 1998: Good saison, bitter finish. I took ****** notes with this one so don't have much.

I don't have pictures for the rest because I was in a bit of a rush to finish up so couldn't hang around to snag empty bottles, but here they are nonetheless:

Fantome La Dalmatienne (1996? the rest are '98's but '96 was the closest on Untappd, I didn't get the year from anyone). This one was sweet and sour, like honey peaches and some fresh saison. After these 3 'tomes maybe I need to start getting some others...

~1996 Hanssens Oude Gueuze: Might be the best nose I've ever experienced on a gueuze, just funk for days, super mouthwatering barnyard goodness, and then the taste was far too sour for me. Ended up giving most of mine to CharlieMurphy.

2009 Fou Foune: The apricots were a bit softer than fresh, the acidity was a bit higher, but overall really nice. Still not sure there's any point to aging these, but it was enjoyable.


Anyway, god bless Toronado, and may god have mercy on my intestines after all that old beer.

I love this post.

Awesome that this place had the Fantomes stashed to include in this tasting with other more typical and frequently talked about cellared beers.

 

[PrinceCasual]

I love this post.

Awesome that this place had the Fantomes stashed to include in this tasting with other more typical and frequently talked about cellared beers.

Since I am relatively young I hope this is not seen as ******** question: did Fantome have more consistency, or at least a better reputation, earlier on? I have always thought of them as very spotty, and hard to throw down cash on, in my ~8yrs in the game. The thought of systematically cellaring them is very foriegn to me, I feel like I am rolling the dice just buying the occasional bottle. The Fantome story is badass, the bottles, not always so much, though I've had good ones no doubt.

I guess what I'm asking more than a treatise on the pros and cons of aging Fantome, is "were these guys just like fuckit let's bury them and see what happens" or was it a different time/ era from before I was following along at home ?

 

[stupac2]

I guess what I'm asking more than a treatise on the pros and cons of aging Fantome, is "were these guys just like fuckit let's bury them and see what happens" or was it a different time/ era from before I was following along at home ?

So, the thing about Toronado is that they've been doing the high-end beer game since faaaar before it was cool in the US. They opened in 1987 and have been getting the fancy stuff that whole time. The other thing about Toronado is that, despite the fancy beer, it's a dive bar. The owner, the staff, hell mostly even the customers, just give zero *****. So they buy all this stuff and put it down in the cellar and it goes on a bottle menu and if it doesn't get bought it gets deleted and forgotten about, but it's still down there. They had some sweetened Lindemanns of unknown age (but likely at least 15 years old) out there too, afaik no one asked for it, although if I could've hung out all day I would've taken a flier at $2.50 a pour.

My understanding is that Fantome used to be very well regarded, especially for aging, but that reputation took a hit with their quality issues in the last few years. stakem is definitely the one to ask about that because I was mostly like you and ignored them (it took me a while to come around to saisons as a style and after 5 Sciences I wasn't particularly keen to try them anyway). But I think the answer to your question is that Toronado is idiosyncratic and keeping them that long was as likely to be an accident as anything. One of the stated reasons for this event was to figure out what was still good to guide future decision-making, I think new(ish) management wants to clear some of this old inventory out.

 

[stakem1]

Since I am relatively young I hope this is not seen as ******** question: did Fantome have more consistency, or at least a better reputation, earlier on? I have always thought of them as very spotty, and hard to throw down cash on, in my ~8yrs in the game. The thought of systematically cellaring them is very foriegn to me, I feel like I am rolling the dice just buying the occasional bottle. The Fantome story is badass, the bottles, not always so much, though I've had good ones no doubt.

I guess what I'm asking more than a treatise on the pros and cons of aging Fantome, is "were these guys just like fuckit let's bury them and see what happens" or was it a different time/ era from before I was following along at home ?

So there are 2 threads on this site dedicated to talking about all things Fantome but I dont expect anyone to go back and read 6 years worth of discussion. I’ll try and give you the cliff notes version. Imagine if you will, a site such as lambic.info stuffed to the gills with information except only dedicated to Fantome and every single thing you read may.... or may not be 100% true.

Fantome has never had “consistency.” That is largely the part of the mystery and lure that surrounds it. You can buy a bottle a classic or surlie Saison every time you see it and it will rarely be the same. While seemingly every other brewer/brewery that exists needs to have consistency in their product, Fantome thrives on the laid back, dont take anything too serious mentality. Dany has not changed much in 30 years. I think lambic blenders/brewers are almost the only other people who can say the same. But regarding consistency, not just batch to batch and bottle to bottle but even the same bottle will change from your first pour out the bottle to last as you let it warm up and the mystery from the dregs gets incorporated into your additional pours.

If you wanna dig deep and go way back. There is a strong case to make that Dany use to reuse bottles wherever he could get them from in order to save money and just get his juice out the door. These bottles were not thoroughly sanitized and despite what he put into them, they drastically changed with the influence of what was residing in those bottles and it truly turned the liquid into something magical. Some people say he reused lambic bottles and im not gonna argue because ive had old bottles that tasted way more like lambic than saison.

Of all the beer ive drank in my life, Fantome saison in the era of late 90’s through about 2010ish was hands down some of the greatest beer i ever experienced. Beer from this period sometimes displays a strong “house” character that is immediately and uniquely identifiable as Fantome. I dont know what it is exactly but I always considered it to be either a wild bacteria he had or some unique mutation of brett he had lurking in his equipment or yeast culture. Anyway, the last time ive tasted that house character was from a bottle circa 2014 and I no longer know if its even in his beer as he has modernized a bit with new equipment and some outside forces/people have talked him into “cleaning up.” I can honestly say, most of his beers today taste like clean, classic and typical saisons without the house addition but I keep buying every new thing that comes out with the hopes ill have a “THERE IT IS AGAIN!” moment whether it be a freshly bought bottle or one I buy now and open in 5-6 years, I pray it will come back. And until that day I will cherish every last ounce in every bottle I have tucked away from the golden period.

 

[FTowne1]

So there are 2 threads on this site dedicated to talking about all things Fantome but I dont expect anyone to go back and read 6 years worth of discussion. I’ll try and give you the cliff notes version. Imagine if you will, a site such as lambic.info stuffed to the gills with information except only dedicated to Fantome and every single thing you read may.... or may not be 100% true.

Fantome has never had “consistency.” That is largely the part of the mystery and lure that surrounds it. You can buy a bottle a classic or surlie Saison every time you see it and it will rarely be the same. While seemingly every other brewer/brewery that exists needs to have consistency in their product, Fantome thrives on the laid back, dont take anything too serious mentality. Dany has not changed much in 30 years. I think lambic blenders/brewers are almost the only other people who can say the same. But regarding consistency, not just batch to batch and bottle to bottle but even the same bottle will change from your first pour out the bottle to last as you let it warm up and the mystery from the dregs gets incorporated into your additional pours.

If you wanna dig deep and go way back. There is a strong case to make that Dany use to reuse bottles wherever he could get them from in order to save money and just get his juice out the door. These bottles were not thoroughly sanitized and despite what he put into them, they drastically changed with the influence of what was residing in those bottles and it truly turned the liquid into something magical. Some people say he reused lambic bottles and im not gonna argue because ive had old bottles that tasted way more like lambic than saison.

Of all the beer ive drank in my life, Fantome saison in the era of late 90’s through about 2010ish was hands down some of the greatest beer i ever experienced. Beer from this period sometimes displays a strong “house” character that is immediately and uniquely identifiable as Fantome. I dont know what it is exactly but I always considered it to be either a wild bacteria he had or some unique mutation of brett he had lurking in his equipment or yeast culture. Anyway, the last time ive tasted that house character was from a bottle circa 2014 and I no longer know if its even in his beer as he has modernized a bit with new equipment and some outside forces/people have talked him into “cleaning up.” I can honestly say, most of his beers today taste like clean, classic and typical saisons without the house addition but I keep buying every new thing that comes out with the hopes ill have a “THERE IT IS AGAIN!” moment whether it be a freshly bought bottle or one I buy now and open in 5-6 years, I pray it will come back. And until that day I will cherish every last ounce in every bottle I have tucked away from the golden period.

 

[reverseapachemaster1]

So there are 2 threads on this site dedicated to talking about all things Fantome but I dont expect anyone to go back and read 6 years worth of discussion. I’ll try and give you the cliff notes version. Imagine if you will, a site such as lambic.info stuffed to the gills with information except only dedicated to Fantome and every single thing you read may.... or may not be 100% true.

Fantome has never had “consistency.” That is largely the part of the mystery and lure that surrounds it. You can buy a bottle a classic or surlie Saison every time you see it and it will rarely be the same. While seemingly every other brewer/brewery that exists needs to have consistency in their product, Fantome thrives on the laid back, dont take anything too serious mentality. Dany has not changed much in 30 years. I think lambic blenders/brewers are almost the only other people who can say the same. But regarding consistency, not just batch to batch and bottle to bottle but even the same bottle will change from your first pour out the bottle to last as you let it warm up and the mystery from the dregs gets incorporated into your additional pours.

If you wanna dig deep and go way back. There is a strong case to make that Dany use to reuse bottles wherever he could get them from in order to save money and just get his juice out the door. These bottles were not thoroughly sanitized and despite what he put into them, they drastically changed with the influence of what was residing in those bottles and it truly turned the liquid into something magical. Some people say he reused lambic bottles and im not gonna argue because ive had old bottles that tasted way more like lambic than saison.

Of all the beer ive drank in my life, Fantome saison in the era of late 90’s through about 2010ish was hands down some of the greatest beer i ever experienced. Beer from this period sometimes displays a strong “house” character that is immediately and uniquely identifiable as Fantome. I dont know what it is exactly but I always considered it to be either a wild bacteria he had or some unique mutation of brett he had lurking in his equipment or yeast culture. Anyway, the last time ive tasted that house character was from a bottle circa 2014 and I no longer know if its even in his beer as he has modernized a bit with new equipment and some outside forces/people have talked him into “cleaning up.” I can honestly say, most of his beers today taste like clean, classic and typical saisons without the house addition but I keep buying every new thing that comes out with the hopes ill have a “THERE IT IS AGAIN!” moment whether it be a freshly bought bottle or one I buy now and open in 5-6 years, I pray it will come back. And until that day I will cherish every last ounce in every bottle I have tucked away from the golden period.

Wasn't like 2010 to 2013 the tire fire era when most bottles had that burnt rubber character? I seem to think after several years he went in and cleaned the equipment to extinguish whatever had turned great house character into terrible house character.

 

[stakem1]

Wasn't like 2010 to 2013 the tire fire era when most bottles had that burnt rubber character? I seem to think after several years he went in and cleaned the equipment to extinguish whatever had turned great house character into terrible house character.

Around 2012/13 was the year you are thinking of. The smoke/burnt/rubber/bandaid thing was due to equipment malfunction. I might be translating this wrong but I swear he said the stirring mechanism in his mash kettle was not functioning properly causing the grist to burn. Once they fixed/replaced that, the tire fire era was over. This issue crossed over many batches and different bottlings though. Running off memory alone I know of the following that were impacted: Boo (batch 1), Dark Ghost, Classic Saison USA import label, 5 sciences, triple gourmet, pissenlit and printemps.

 

[reverseapachemaster1]

Around 2012/13 was the year you are thinking of. The smoke/burnt/rubber/bandaid thing was due to equipment malfunction. I might be translating this wrong but I swear he said the stirring mechanism in his mash kettle was not functioning properly causing the grist to burn. Once they fixed/replaced that, the tire fire era was over. This issue crossed over many batches and different bottlings though. Running off memory alone I know of the following that were impacted: Boo (batch 1), Dark Ghost, Classic Saison USA import label, 5 sciences, triple gourmet, pissenlit and printemps.

This sounds right. Now that you mention the stirring mechanism I recall reading that.

 

[FTowne1]

Around 2012/13 was the year you are thinking of. The smoke/burnt/rubber/bandaid thing was due to equipment malfunction. I might be translating this wrong but I swear he said the stirring mechanism in his mash kettle was not functioning properly causing the grist to burn. Once they fixed/replaced that, the tire fire era was over. This issue crossed over many batches and different bottlings though. Running off memory alone I know of the following that were impacted: Boo (batch 1), Dark Ghost, Classic Saison USA import label, 5 sciences, triple gourmet, pissenlit and printemps.

Hiver was definitely in that group as well.

 

[PurityControl88]

So there are 2 threads on this site dedicated to talking about all things Fantome but I dont expect anyone to go back and read 6 years worth of discussion. I’ll try and give you the cliff notes version. Imagine if you will, a site such as lambic.info stuffed to the gills with information except only dedicated to Fantome and every single thing you read may.... or may not be 100% true.

Fantome has never had “consistency.” That is largely the part of the mystery and lure that surrounds it. You can buy a bottle a classic or surlie Saison every time you see it and it will rarely be the same. While seemingly every other brewer/brewery that exists needs to have consistency in their product, Fantome thrives on the laid back, dont take anything too serious mentality. Dany has not changed much in 30 years. I think lambic blenders/brewers are almost the only other people who can say the same. But regarding consistency, not just batch to batch and bottle to bottle but even the same bottle will change from your first pour out the bottle to last as you let it warm up and the mystery from the dregs gets incorporated into your additional pours.

If you wanna dig deep and go way back. There is a strong case to make that Dany use to reuse bottles wherever he could get them from in order to save money and just get his juice out the door. These bottles were not thoroughly sanitized and despite what he put into them, they drastically changed with the influence of what was residing in those bottles and it truly turned the liquid into something magical. Some people say he reused lambic bottles and im not gonna argue because ive had old bottles that tasted way more like lambic than saison.

Of all the beer ive drank in my life, Fantome saison in the era of late 90’s through about 2010ish was hands down some of the greatest beer i ever experienced. Beer from this period sometimes displays a strong “house” character that is immediately and uniquely identifiable as Fantome. I dont know what it is exactly but I always considered it to be either a wild bacteria he had or some unique mutation of brett he had lurking in his equipment or yeast culture. Anyway, the last time ive tasted that house character was from a bottle circa 2014 and I no longer know if its even in his beer as he has modernized a bit with new equipment and some outside forces/people have talked him into “cleaning up.” I can honestly say, most of his beers today taste like clean, classic and typical saisons without the house addition but I keep buying every new thing that comes out with the hopes ill have a “THERE IT IS AGAIN!” moment whether it be a freshly bought bottle or one I buy now and open in 5-6 years, I pray it will come back. And until that day I will cherish every last ounce in every bottle I have tucked away from the golden period.

Whenever I see posts like this I end up typing a huge response full of my own tome theories and questions. Then I delete it. IDK. Maybe I don't want to know and just keep on buying new tomes and wondering. Anyways, ISO of Fantome bottles from that golden era that stakem always refers to (would love to taste that elusive house character). And by ISO I mean someone that'd share one w me. Can bring lambic, natrual wine, morels, or whatever the **** Fantome people are into these days.

 

[skrip]

Whenever I see posts like this I end up typing a huge response full of my own tome theories and questions. Then I delete it. IDK. Maybe I don't want to know and just keep on buying new tomes and wondering. Anyways, ISO of Fantome bottles from that golden era that stakem always refers to (would love to taste that elusive house character). And by ISO I mean someone that'd share one w me. Can bring lambic, natrual wine, morels, or whatever the **** Fantome people are into these days.

fly up to the philly area for july 26th and share with stakem, jtclockwork and myself! =]

 

[PrinceCasual]

So there are 2 threads on this site dedicated to talking about all things Fantome but I dont expect anyone to go back and read 6 years worth of discussion.

Thank you for the Cliffs.

I don't know if this was your intention but now I want read said 6yrs of posts.

Need Fantome though, there's no way I get the full experience reading it without wetting my whistle. Maybe even need a #TireFire to get the full feels. Cheers

 

[tikk]

Thank you for the Cliffs.

I don't know if this was your intention but now I want read said 6yrs of posts.

Need Fantome though, there's no way I get the full experience reading it without wetting my whistle. Cheers

The first fantome thread is what drew me to this site. I found some old Tomes and wanted info, it came up on Google and after reading it I never left. So you can blame danyP for me being on this sorry ass site.

 

[PurityControl88]

fly up to the philly area for july 26th and share with stakem, jtclockwork and myself! =]

Okay! The little green guy is me quivering with excitement.

 

[Espeer]

I used to get bottles of sur lie at cyclone liquors every time I had a few bucks to spare. Funky lime/lemonade. They never lasted more than the time it took to cool down in the fridge. Probably had 30 of them from 2003 to 2005. God I wish I had saved some. I knew nothing about beer at the time. Bought one cause the ghost looked cool and then just kept buying them. Basically drank Milwaukees best and fantome. I actually don't think there was all that much bottle variation.

 

[libbey]

Opened a 2015 Allagash Martina Rose. Sad shell of its former glory. Jammy raspberry notes have left and it’s borderline acetone at this point. Maybe some bottle variation but this was one of my all time favorite beers from Allagash a couple of years ago. Let it warm up hoping it might improve. Sadly dumping the rest.

 

[PrinceCasual]

Basically drank Milwaukees best and fantome. I actually don't think there was all that much bottle variation.

Read this as MB and Fantome taste the same, except bottle variation. I like it.

 

[iong516]

This is just incredibly good. Mellow floral bitterness, grainy, light.

 

[jammery]

Opened a 2015 Allagash Martina Rose. Sad shell of its former glory. Jammy raspberry notes have left and it’s borderline acetone at this point. Maybe some bottle variation but this was one of my all time favorite beers from Allagash a couple of years ago. Let it warm up hoping it might improve. Sadly dumping the rest.

Mattina I feel doesn't age well but Nancy is phenomenal with a couple years.