Catty Flavor/Aroma in Beer

[HB_ATL73]

Woah! holy cat litter.... I am trying to figure out where this flavor/aroma has come from and looking for some advice on the matter.


To start, I thought I would give no boil brewing a try due to my current living situation. I have some doubts on the potential outcome of these two brews but I was just itching to brew so this was my only option. Here are the two recipes:

1st batch: 6 gal batch- 6# Wheat DME 2# sugar, no boil, no bittering hops - OG 1.060 FG- 1.010
Dry hopped with 4oz Citra 3 oz Mosaic (in dry hop cartridge)@ 24hours for 7 days. Still carbonating in the keg but tastes fantastic of tangerine, orange, fruity citrus- I can tell will be a good beer.

2nd batch: 6 gal batch- 3# pilsner DME, 3# Bavarian wheat DME, 2# sugar, no boil, no bittering hops- OG 1.060 FG 1.010
Dry hopped with 3oz Citra, 3oz Amarillo, 1 oz Galaxy (thrown in loose)@ 24 hours for 7 days. Still carbonating in keg. This beer has the worst catty flavor I've ever tasted. Cat litter bomb. The beer is still green and it should fade some I'm sure, but with this level of intensity I don't imagine will be a very drinkable beer. Time will tell..

Now I've read Citra can cause these catty flavors and am curious whether or not Amarillo or Galaxy can cause these intense aromas? It is interesting to me that the beer with more Citra has a balanced smooth citrus flavor vs beer #2. Maybe due to using hop cartridge vs throwing in loose into the beer? Would the type of DME have an impact on the hop flavor/aroma?

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Iseneye]

I have got cat piss from every citra beer I have made. I have an Amarillo smash on tap with none of that aroma.

 

[Zinge]

Woah! holy cat litter.... I am trying to figure out where this flavor/aroma has come from and looking for some advice on the matter.


To start, I thought I would give no boil brewing a try due to my current living situation. I have some doubts on the potential outcome of these two brews but I was just itching to brew so this was my only option. Here are the two recipes:

1st batch: 6 gal batch- 6# Wheat DME 2# sugar, no boil, no bittering hops - OG 1.060 FG- 1.010
Dry hopped with 4oz Citra 3 oz Mosaic (in dry hop cartridge)@ 24hours for 7 days. Still carbonating in the keg but tastes fantastic of tangerine, orange, fruity citrus- I can tell will be a good beer.

2nd batch: 6 gal batch- 3# pilsner DME, 3# Bavarian wheat DME, 2# sugar, no boil, no bittering hops- OG 1.060 FG 1.010
Dry hopped with 3oz Citra, 3oz Amarillo, 1 oz Galaxy (thrown in loose)@ 24 hours for 7 days. Still carbonating in keg. This beer has the worst catty flavor I've ever tasted. Cat litter bomb. The beer is still green and it should fade some I'm sure, but with this level of intensity I don't imagine will be a very drinkable beer. Time will tell..

Now I've read Citra can cause these catty flavors and am curious whether or not Amarillo or Galaxy can cause these intense aromas? It is interesting to me that the beer with more Citra has a balanced smooth citrus flavor vs beer #2. Maybe due to using hop cartridge vs throwing in loose into the beer? Would the type of DME have an impact on the hop flavor/aroma?

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

I've had a commercial beer hopped with Amarillo that smelled like cat piss. However, the one time I dry-hopped with Amarillo it was amazing (only 1oz in 5gal tho)

 

[Zinge]

Woah! holy cat litter.... I am trying to figure out where this flavor/aroma has come from and looking for some advice on the matter.


To start, I thought I would give no boil brewing a try due to my current living situation. I have some doubts on the potential outcome of these two brews but I was just itching to brew so this was my only option. Here are the two recipes:

1st batch: 6 gal batch- 6# Wheat DME 2# sugar, no boil, no bittering hops - OG 1.060 FG- 1.010
Dry hopped with 4oz Citra 3 oz Mosaic (in dry hop cartridge)@ 24hours for 7 days. Still carbonating in the keg but tastes fantastic of tangerine, orange, fruity citrus- I can tell will be a good beer.

2nd batch: 6 gal batch- 3# pilsner DME, 3# Bavarian wheat DME, 2# sugar, no boil, no bittering hops- OG 1.060 FG 1.010
Dry hopped with 3oz Citra, 3oz Amarillo, 1 oz Galaxy (thrown in loose)@ 24 hours for 7 days. Still carbonating in keg. This beer has the worst catty flavor I've ever tasted. Cat litter bomb. The beer is still green and it should fade some I'm sure, but with this level of intensity I don't imagine will be a very drinkable beer. Time will tell..

Now I've read Citra can cause these catty flavors and am curious whether or not Amarillo or Galaxy can cause these intense aromas? It is interesting to me that the beer with more Citra has a balanced smooth citrus flavor vs beer #2. Maybe due to using hop cartridge vs throwing in loose into the beer? Would the type of DME have an impact on the hop flavor/aroma?

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

I've had a commercial beer hopped with Amarillo that smelled like cat piss. However, the one time I dry-hopped with Amarillo it was amazing (only 1oz in 5gal tho)

 

[HB_ATL73]

Well in my mind looking at the variables here it seems Amarillo must be the culprit because the higher hopped citra/mosaic beer tastes fantastic.

 

[thehaze]

Amarillo nevber gave cat piss for me, no matter how much/little and how I've used it. Citra can give some cat pee notes, but again, never happened to me. I've tasted commercial examples that did. Mosaic, albeit a very nais hop, I cannot stand it's chivey/oniony flavour and aroma, which sometimes can result from using it.

Was the Citra hops from the very same batch/lot/farm/harvest? Were they kep OK? Did they smell well in the bag?

 

[HB_ATL73]

Mosaic, albeit a very nais hop, I cannot stand it's chivey/oniony flavour and aroma, which sometimes can result from using it.

Was the Citra hops from the very same batch/lot/farm/harvest? Were they kep OK? Did they smell well in the bag?

This is where I am trying to filter through the variables where this aroma may have come from. The Citra/Mosaic beer tastes great with no chivey/onion and all fruity/citrus. The beer dry hopped with 3oz Citra, 3oz Amarillo, 1 oz Galaxy has the intense catty flavor.

The Citra were from the same 8oz package- Beer 1 made one day and the remaining hops vacuum sealed and placed in freezer. The other beer was made the next day with the same lot. The Citra smelled great out of the package.


Do you think using a hop cartridge in the first beer effected the utilization or had some impact on flavor vs throwing in loose?

 

[thehaze]

I never bag hops in any of the stages I use them, so I wouldn't know, but you do get better utilisation when hops are used loose. My thoughts are you got lucky with the first beer and on the second, Citra got the better of it. Amarillo is not really that punngent when put together with Citra and Galaxy. Itb should mellow down.

If you are wondering which hops add the catty non-sense, brew some smash recipes with the same Citra and Amarillo hops.

 

[wepeeler]

I've heard of the dreaded Citra cat pee aroma/flavor, but I've only had it slightly in one of my very first beers I made. I think it was Citra/Amarillo. It faded over time. BUT, Galaxy can be a very overpowering hop. I haven't gotten catty from it, but I know it can take a few to mellow and really shine. At least that's been my experience with Galaxy.

 

[jimfire85]

All my interactions with Galaxy are similar, mildewy fieldstone basement aroma. Some call it dank, some call it catty. All the same it puts out an aroma like you've mentioned. Most the down under hops seem to share this trait. Ymmv , the same recipe may benefit from moving the Galaxy to a flame out addition rather than dry hop.

 

[HB_ATL73]

I never bag hops in any of the stages I use them, so I wouldn't know, but you do get better utilisation when hops are used loose. My thoughts are you got lucky with the first beer and on the second, Citra got the better of it. Amarillo is not really that punngent when put together with Citra and Galaxy. Itb should mellow down.

If you are wondering which hops add the catty non-sense, brew some smash recipes with the same Citra and Amarillo hops.

So a quick update and thanks to everyone for the input. Like i always am with brewing i think i jump to conclusions too quickly. I cant believe how fast the catty flavor faded. Its all pineapple and orange now- crazy what a few days in the keg did

 

[Beerwildered]

I visited a local Minneapolis brewery today and tasted a number of their beers. Some were very good, but every single beer with mosaic hops tasted catty and sharp to me. It was awful, made worse by the fact that they use mosaic in *a lot* of their IPAs

I get an off flavor every time I eat cilantro, which makes me wonder if the catty thing is related. Maybe it’s a generic response to certain flavors?

I dunno. But I wouldn’t choose to drink their beers again.

 

[dmtaylor]

If you don't like catbox, then quit using the cattiest hops known to mankind.

 

[Beerwildered]

If you don't like catbox, then quit using the cattiest hops known to mankind.

Apropos of???

 

[dmtaylor]

Apropos of???

Sorry, BW, I was still responding to the OP, not to your update.

 

[Lefou]

The cat tells me to use only low alpha noble bittering hops and never complains about my beer.

 

[balrog]

I thought Simcoe was the cat pee hop?
Now I'm confused.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

The cat tells me to use only low alpha noble bittering hops and never complains about my beer.

High alpha acid Magnum hops will never let you down for clean bittering.

 

[balrog]

High alpha acid Magnum hops will never let you down for clean bittering.

Until you buy a pound of them and then only brew 18-20x a year and suddenly you're questioning what to do with 14.3oz of 2 yr old Magnum hops...

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Until you buy a pound of them and then only brew 18-20x a year and suddenly you're questioning what to do with 14.3oz of 2 yr old Magnum hops...

I keep them (as well as all other of my hops) in my deep freezer. I just brewed Saturday with roughly 2 year old (to me, and quite likely even older in actuality) Magnum hops used for bittering. I'll update if they are a failure.

 

[isomerization]

Until you buy a pound of them and then only brew 18-20x a year and suddenly you're questioning what to do with 14.3oz of 2 yr old Magnum hops...

Add them later in the boil or make stronger beers!

 

[balrog]

But back on topic about cat pee. Citra is the OP's question. Doesn't Simcoe have the same attribute? Is it one of those things like Cilantro, where some folks have the "Cilantro tastes like soap" gene and others don't?

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Do one (or a combination) of the hop oils point to cattiness when present at or above a certain threshold?

I've heard that Citra should never be added earlier within the boil than with 20 minutes remaining.

 

[isomerization]

4MMP

https://watermark.silverchair.com/2...wDOn0Gdn9iCervY_uyI5bCVIIuHJTmWQKu8Ia2e0zUFYG

“Semillon, Cabernet sauvignon and Merlot grapes [6–11]. The aroma of 4MMP is reminiscent of box tree and blackcurrant, but presents a cat urine odour at higher concentrations [7,12,13].“