cask beer ( sort of )

[14th_vermont]

So I brewed a ESB recipe for use in a corny keg. I have it hooked up to a hand pump, from pint365.com, to replicate british style cask beers. While using the hand pump it gets a lot of foam. I have the the co2 psi at 5. I bled off the co2 head pressure in corny keg but it still dispensing quite a lot of foam. Any thoughts or assistance would be great. Love British beer especially cask beer so I set this up in my basement home bar. Thanks

 

[doug293cz]

What is the temperature of your keg?

Brew on

 

[DuncB]

Can't beat a beer engine.
Firstly try pulling a bit slower and without the sparkler.
Cellar temp 12 celsius beer and 5 psi is over 1.4 vols, you might want a bit less.
What size tubing internal from keg to check valve? It should be 3/8 in and 1/2 inch out to the engine.
Another thing that will help is to pause for a moment when pulled so that the beer cylinder can refill with a bit less cavitation.

 

[DuncB]

You need a little bit of pressure only to maintain the condition in the beer and the engine should do the rest for you.
If it's really easy to pull that also hints at the keg pressure being a little too high. Real cask beer would be at atmospheric above the beer and then the engine " sucks " the beer to the glass. Not practical as your beer will oxidise if you open your keg to the air. However a 4l mini keg filled from your corny and then vented will last a few days ( depending on how quickly you drink ) open to the air. But you can top the mini keg up at the end of a session with CO2 and vent and fridge it overnight if you want. I don't bother and don't find that the beer in the engine stales if you have a good pre and finish session cleaning regime.
What regime do they suggest to maintain the lines and engine?
Not an ESB but a Five points bitter clone with fresh hops in whirlpool.

 

[14th_vermont]

What is the temperature of your keg?

Brew on

had it around 43 F

 

[DuncB]

Too cold, too many psi, too many vols, too many bubbles.

 

[doug293cz]

Too cold, too many psi, too many vols, too many bubbles.

Warm it up to about 50°F, and drop the pressure to 1 psi. That will lower the carbonation from 1.7 volumes to 1.2 volumes, which should help.

 

[McMullan]

In addition, the serving vessel, cask, keg, or whatever, needs to be 'open'. If CO2 is attached, it needs to be at very low pressure, just enough to replace volume pulled out by the pump. A cask breather or LPG regulator. It's a good idea to have a demand valve in the beer line, to stop beer dripping from the spout or flowing back into the serving vessel. I've been testing 3/8" EVA barrier line recently. It works like a charm.

Edit: What @doug293cz recommends just above (post #7) is very important. Cask ale needs to be conditioned a second time a day or so before serving, where excess pressure/CO2 is released slowly by tapping then venting the cask or keg.

 

[DuncB]

@McMullan
Nice setup there, I found out the soft spiles are made of Cane. But will be getting some from RLBS in the summer along with a few other necessities such as a cask breather although I do have some 10 litre mylar bags i could fill with CO2 if using a larger keg. I like the decant to smaller keg method because when you're done you can clean via the mini keg as well.

 

[rmr9]

@McMullan
Nice setup there, I found out the soft spiles are made of Cane. But will be getting some from RLBS in the summer along with a few other necessities such as a cask breather although I do have some 10 litre mylar bags i could fill with CO2 if using a larger keg. I like the decant to smaller keg method because when you're done you can clean via the mini keg as well.

It had never occurred to me to fill a Mylar bag with CO2 to use with a breather. I usually just keep my CO2 tank hooked up but turned off until I draw a pint at 2-3 PSI then shut the tank off again. This seems like a reasonable method that would prevent me from having to even hook my tank up.

 

[14th_vermont]

Can't beat a beer engine.
Firstly try pulling a bit slower and without the sparkler.
Cellar temp 12 celsius beer and 5 psi is over 1.4 vols, you might want a bit less.
What size tubing internal from keg to check valve? It should be 3/8 in and 1/2 inch out to the engine.
Another thing that will help is to pause for a moment when pulled so that the beer cylinder can refill with a bit less cavitation.

Not sure on tubing size , whatever came with it from pint 365. I will try some of your suggestions Thank you

 

[14th_vermont]

Too cold, too many psi, too many vols, too many bubbles.

ok will bring temp up and follow suggestions. Thank you

 

[14th_vermont]

Warm it up to about 50°F, and drop the pressure to 1 psi. That will lower the carbonation from 1.7 volumes to 1.2 volumes, which should help.

ok will do. Does the existing psi have to be bled out ? Or can I just lower it to 1 psi and let it settle and then try again? Thank you

 

[doug293cz]

ok will do. Does the existing psi have to be bled out ? Or can I just lower it to 1 psi and let it settle and then try again? Thank you

Probably best to vent the excess pressure. Otherwise, it will take some time for things to come back into equilibrium. Might need to vent a couple of times a day, for a few days, as excess CO2 comes out of the beer, and builds up pressure in the headspace again.

Brew on

 

[DuncB]

You could be cute and fill a sanitised keg or two with the vented gas and then " return " that to offset the beer losses, if you have a spunding valve you can use that to control the gas venting rather than burst venting as suggested by @doug293cz.
Will await an updated video.

 

[14th_vermont]

Probably best to vent the excess pressure. Otherwise, it will take some time for things to come back into equilibrium. Might need to vent a couple of times a day, for a few days, as excess CO2 comes out of the beer, and builds up pressure in the headspace again.

Brew on

So i think the reason for excessive foam is due to fact we raised the psi to 30 for 2 days and rolled corny keg around for a few minutes to speed up carbonation time . This was advised from home brew shop but they were not aware we were using a hand pump to dispense the beer. Beer pours ok from my regular tap but not from hand pump so I think that is problem. So will make corrections after next brew. Thanks all

 

[DuncB]

Just keep pouring (and drinking of course) from regular tap with no CO2 connection and you'll soon get the beer
" flat " for the beer engine.

 

[doug293cz]

You could be cute and fill a sanitised keg or two with the vented gas and then " return " that to offset the beer losses, if you have a spunding valve you can use that to control the gas venting rather than burst venting as suggested by @doug293cz.
Will await an updated video.

If you can find a spunding valve that works at 1 psi (or less) this is a good idea.

Brew on

 

[14th_vermont]

Just keep pouring (and drinking of course) from regular tap with no CO2 connection and you'll soon get the beer
" flat " for the beer engine.

Shut off co2 and will keep pouring and drinking, 3 pints today so far!!!! I will bleed off head pressure from corny keg as well and hook up to hand pump in a day or two. thanks

 

[schmurf]

If you can find a spunding valve that works at 1 psi (or less) this is a good idea.

Brew on

That could be a Duotight one-way check valve, they open at 1 psi, or less than, I belive.

 

[DuncB]

@schmurf
The one way ball locks for gas are about the same pressure as well. However they don't let gas out as I found out when I connected my spunding valve to one. Pressure was 35 psi and venting through prv when I returned on day 4. That was tricky to vent the excess gas!!!

 

[14th_vermont]

Thanks all for assistance. Definitely an over carbonation issue. Lowered co2 back down to 2 psi working much better. Still not a true cask beer but with the corny keg and hand pump a good compromise

 

[DuncB]

That's looking so much better, could almost see the smile on your face.

Worth looking at this website
https://www.beer-genius.co.uk/bite-size-learning
Near the bottom pouring cask ale long spout for a technique tweak.

But lots of good info about keg,casks, lines etc.

It's made me thirsty!!