Carmalizing Technique

[thekraken]

I'm planning my next brew to be a wee heavy. I've come across several recipes that say to caramelize some wort. I'v tried to look up some details on how that is done but havn't found much more than "collect 1 gallon of first runnings and boil the piss out of it".

What are your techniques for caramelization? Do you boil down to a specific consistancy, or volume, or color? All of the above?

I found this recipe https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=8071.0 for a wee heavy where the instructions are to boil 2 gallons down to 1 pint! Scaling that 10 gallon batch down to my 5 gallons would mean reducing 1 gallon down to just one cup! Should I really go that far?

 

[BigPerm]

I'm planning my next brew to be a wee heavy. I've come across several recipes that say to carmalize some wort. I'v tried to look up some details on how that is done but havn't found much more than "collect 1 gallon of first runnings and boil the piss out of it".

What are your techniques for carmalization? Do you boil down to a specific consistancy, or volume, or color? All of the above?

I found this recipe https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=8071.0 for a wee heavy where the instructions are to boil 2 gallons down to 1 pint! Scaling that 10 gallon batch down to my 5 gallons would mean reducing 1 gallon down to just one cup! Should I really go that far?

The point of doing it this way is to really concentrate the flavors while caramelizing the sugar. You can really go as far as you want, but the further you reduce, the more of those reactions you'll encourage. To your initial question, the consistency and volume will be directly related to the color and depth of malty, caramelized flavor you get. You'll be better off doing it than not, and a little is better than none. So, take a gal of first runnings, reduce it and taste while youre doing it. Add when it has the depth you want. And don't let it burn.

Good luck!

 

[thekraken]

Since I've never done or seen it done before, I guess what I'm asking is what depth do I want?

Yes, buring the sugars was my primary concern when I read the Traquair House Ale Clone recipe. How easy is it to burn the sugars?

 

[BigPerm]

Since I've never done or seen it done before, I guess what I'm asking is what depth do I want?

Yes, buring the sugars was my primary concern when I read the Traquair House Ale Clone recipe. How easy is it to burn the sugars?

I'll preface my answer by letting you know that i dont like scottish beers very much, and as such, I've never made one.

Once you get to a pretty thick syrup, you'll want to turn your heat down and stir. Its not hard to burn it, but if you keep your eyes on it you'll be fine. But you don't necessarily have to go that long. Let it go as long as you feel comfortable. As I said, doing it is better than not, so if you stop a little early, it likely wont matter too much.

 

[thekraken]

When do I not want to use the technique? Are there certain grains that don't do well with that kind of treatment?

 

[IslandLizard]

By boiling down the wort to a syrupy consistency you're encouraging Maillard reactions, which are responsible for all kinds of yummy flavors. The thicker it gets the more of those compounds are formed while the temperature goes up, but the greater risk of scorching or burning if you don't stir well.

The compounds created that way are not fermentable by Sacch so you'll end up with a higher FG, again part of the style.

Make sure to mash in at a lowish water/malt ratio (1.25 or lower) so you end up with very high gravity first runnings, so you don't have to boil off a lot of water to get to your syrup.

 

[Calichusetts]

I used this technique a lot lately. Things happen fast as it carmelizes. You really want to watch it as it will burn quite easily. I like a nice wide saucepan to speed up the boil off. It can sometimes be a pain to get it all out, even with a spatula.

And yes, I have come out consistently 2 points higher in my FG with this technique

 

[IslandLizard]

I used this technique a lot lately. Things happen fast as it carmelizes. You really want to watch it as it will burn quite easily. I like a nice wide saucepan to speed up the boil off. It can sometimes be a pain to get it all out, even with a spatula.

And yes, I have come out consistently 2 points higher in my FG with this technique

No need to scrape them out, just dilute with hot wort from your 2nd or 3rd runnings when done. They all go in the kettle anyway.

Good point on the burning issue, you definitely don't want to get anywhere near that point. If it feels it gets to thick and may start to burn or scorch add a little more wort (or water). The longer time the syrup is held at the higher temps the more Maillard reactions and thus more flavor develops.

I've made some terribly acrid caramel syrups by not keeping an eye on the temps and consistency. It's easy to overshoot, you got to stay on it.

 

[Oginme]

Running a side reduction is one of my favorite techniques for creating a really complex malt character with a rather simple grain bill. I love the scottish styles and scotch ales, so I've had a lot of practice with it.

I remove about 4 liters (from a 20 liter batch) and put it into a 2-gallon pot. You want to make sure that the pot is about double the amount of wort you have because it can foam up quite high and I've almost overflowed even the 2-gallon pot. I turn the heat on high and allow it to come to a vigorous boil. You need to watch at this point because as it thickens, it really stabilizes the foam. I turn down the rate of boil when the volume is about half of the original. When it gets down to about a third of the original volume, it will start to become thicker, almost like corn syrup in consistency. At this point you need to stir and watch your heat to prevent scorching on the bottom of the pot. I bring it down to a little less than 1 liter (less than a quarter of original volume) before diluting it with water back to original volume. The wort before water addition is about the same consistency of honey.

I will boil for ten more minutes, which allows the thickened wort to mix into the water well before pouring back into the boiling wort of the main batch about 5 minutes before the end of my 90 minute boil.

You can do this with a base malt and roasted barley which in my experience adds a slightly burnt-toffee, fried raisin/prune flavor
When I have added in a caramel malt at about 5% to 8% to the grist bill, I get a rich butterscotch type of flavor (without the sweetness) in addition to the toasted raisin/prune notes.

As pointed out by a number of comments above, you really need to be on top of the reduction towards the end or you will end up with a burnt gooey mess which is, IMO, unpalatable.

 

[riceral]

Here's a method for reducing first runnings: http://www.homebrewdad.com/index.php?blogid=70

Disclaimer: I haven't done this but this is the basic method I have heard others use.

 

[thekraken]

Thanks everybody for your input, you helped a lot.

And thanks for the link riceral... Weird timing coincidence.

 

[wobdee]

I like to use dark Candi syrup at the end of boil.

 

[thekraken]

I like to use dark Candi syrup at the end of boil.

Instead of caramelizing? Is it the same or different flavor? If different, what is the difference?

 

[wobdee]

Instead of caramelizing? Is it the same or different flavor? If different, what is the difference?

I think its similar, it has that toffee carmel prune flavor.

 

[drainbamage]

I like to use dark Candi syrup at the end of boil.

Candi sugar ferments more completely though, doesn't it? You'd get some similar flavor contributions, but a drier beer than if you caramelized some wort.

 

[wobdee]

Candi sugar ferments more completely though, doesn't it? You'd get some similar flavor contributions, but a drier beer than if you caramelized some wort.

Yes it does but you don't need much of it to get the flavor. For my 2.5 gal Scottish ales I'll use about 4 oz along with a couple oz of roast barley, maybe a touch of dark crystal and mash high. FG is usually up around 1016-1020.

 

[TheHunk]

Me thinks we are over thinking this. Take 1 gallon of the first runnings in your brew pot and boil it down to 1/2 gallon. Sparge into brew pot and boil. Tasty brew.

 

[troglodytes]

Sorry to revive a dead thread, but since it exists, I figured I'll ask my question here. I just attempted to reduce down 1 gal of first runnings to about 1 qt. It darkened up to about about 20 SRM (would be my guess) and the bubbles were thickening. Due to timing I ended the reduction and added it to the boil kettle without darkening or thickening further, although I would have liked to. I did have a little taste of the reduction prior to pitching it in the kettle and it tasted like super sweet creamed corn. Not what I was expecting after reading about others experience with this method.

Is this normal? If not I'm wondering how too make a more complex and good tasting reduction in the future (ie reduce further, filter runnings, etc).

Note: The mash was 50% pale malt, 50% pilsner (both Belgian). 1st running came out of a brew bag @ 1.070.